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Religion does more harm than good?

MrDawn

MrDawn

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Do you think religion does more harm than good? Why or why not?
 
I disagree with this completely. Religion in its core teaches humans to be good, humble, respectful to others, forgiving, loving, it teaches how to live life so that your sins don't ruin not only your life, but life of others. If people were to follow these teachings, the world would be a better place. There is no crazy ideology in it but those who read the Bible know this.
 
Fear motivates the scene and people use religion to say what they want it to say. That doesn't mean religion as originally intended was that way.
 
Religion in general? No, I don't support that general sentiment.

Are there certain religious movements or ideologies out there causing harm? Yes.
 
Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls.

  • The Crusades: 6,000,000
  • Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
  • French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
  • Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
  • Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
  • Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
  • Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
  • Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
  • Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
  • Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
  • Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
  • First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
  • The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
  • Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
  • Iraq War: 500,000
  • US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
  • Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
  • Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
  • AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
  • Spanish Inquisition: 5,000


TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.
 
Al said:
Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls.

  • The Crusades: 6,000,000
  • Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
  • French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
  • Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
  • Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
  • Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
  • Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
  • Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
  • Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
  • Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
  • Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
  • First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
  • The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
  • Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
  • Iraq War: 500,000
  • US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
  • Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
  • Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
  • AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
  • Spanish Inquisition: 5,000


TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.
Click to expand...
What about Stalin and Mao?
 
Al said:
Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls.

  • The Crusades: 6,000,000
  • Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
  • French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
  • Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
  • Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
  • Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
  • Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
  • Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
  • Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
  • Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
  • Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
  • First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
  • The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
  • Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
  • Iraq War: 500,000
  • US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
  • Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
  • Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
  • AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
  • Spanish Inquisition: 5,000


TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.
Click to expand...

And, of course, those with no professed religion, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and so on, passed out lolly pops and unicorn stickers to everybody.
 
Jason said:
What about Stalin and Mao?
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DrLeftover said:
And, of course, those with no professed religion, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and so on, passed out lolly pops and unicorn stickers to everybody.
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Ahh, whataboutism, my good friend. When faced with criticism which cannot be refuted, whataboutism is the refuge of the desperate. No counter? No denials? You accept religion is a cause of genocide. I'd say you have just proven the argument that religion does more harm than good.
 
Al said:
I'd say you have just proven the argument that religion does more harm than good.
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There are tens of thousands of religions. You've listed a little over 20 situations, many of them with the same religion at it's root.

There are religions that don't have a problem with condoms, don't engage in human sacrifices, and don't pick up arms and go to war.
 
Dismal_Bliss said:
There are religions that don't have a problem with condoms, don't engage in human sacrifices, and don't pick up arms and go to war.
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You're dead right. And this isn't an "all religion is bad" situation. The question was "Do you think religion does more harm than good? Why or why not?" There are no absolutes but religion does do more harm than good.
 
Communism is a religion of sorts. Yeah, I agree religion is terrible. However, we can't really call religion, religion, but rather an organized cult. However, any political movement is a cult and politics is deeply embedded in what people say is religion, because it's a key to power over others.

Anyone get what I'm saying? 🤔

Well, here's another thought, if we got rid of cult behavior what would that do? But it's not possible, really.
 
Al said:
There are no absolutes but religion does do more harm than good.
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And I can't get on board with broad brushing generalizations when we know there are religions that do no harm and produce a lot of good.
Does religion do more harm than good? Depends on the religion. We need to be more specific.

Jason said:
However, we can't really call religion, religion, but rather an organized cult. However, any political movement is a cult ... Anyone get what I'm saying? 🤔
Click to expand...

Everything is a cult. Democrats are a cult. Republicans are a cult. Golf is a cult. Forum lovers are a cult, lol.

Cult is short for culture. All sorts of groups have their own culture. Cultivate is a related word. Most parents and friends strive to cultivate similar beliefs and ideals in their children or friends.

Somehow "cult" started being thrown around as an insult, when it really isn't (without context or qualifications).
 
Well, actually let's use Ireland as an example. The conflict is about nationalism, not religion. So in many places, things seem about religion but aren't.

In fact, the reformation might have been more about freedom from the power of the Catholic church, not it's teachings

Also, the Israel-Palestinian thing is about land ownership.
 
Al said:
Here's a list of religiously motivated wars and genocides and their death tolls.

  • The Crusades: 6,000,000
  • Thirty Years War: 11,500,000
  • French Wars of Religion: 4,000,000
  • Second Sudanese Civil War: 2,000,000
  • Lebanese Civil War: 250,000
  • Muslim Conquests of India: 80,000,000
  • Congolese Genocide (King Leopold II): 13,000,000
  • Armenian Genocide: 1,500,000
  • Rwandan Genocide: 800,000
  • Eighty Years' War: 1,000,000
  • Nigerian Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Great Peasants' Revolt: 250,000
  • First Sudanese Civil War: 1,000,000
  • Jewish Diaspora (Not Including the Holocaust): 1,000,000
  • The Holocaust (Jewish and Homosexual Deaths): 6,500,000
  • Islamic Terrorism Since 2000: 150,000
  • Iraq War: 500,000
  • US Western Expansion (Justified by "Manifest Destiny"):20,000,000
  • Atlantic Slave Trade (Justified by Christianity): 14,000,000
  • Aztec Human Sacrifice: 80,000
  • AIDS deaths in Africa largely due to opposition to condoms: 30,000,000
  • Spanish Inquisition: 5,000


TOTAL: 195,035,000 deaths in the name of religion.
Click to expand...
Lots of things done in the name of religion, but religion wasn't all it was about.

For instance, Jews were wrongly killed cause of economic resentment in tough times and the Atlantic Slave trade was due to lust for profit. The list goes on and on but certain radical atheists like Sam Harris need a simple answer of religion.
 
Al said:
Ahh, whataboutism, my good friend. When faced with criticism which cannot be refuted, whataboutism is the refuge of the desperate. No counter? No denials? You accept religion is a cause of genocide. I'd say you have just proven the argument that religion does more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Yes, genocide, pogroms, cleansing, purges, and whatever else you can come up with have been done in the name of religion. Or in the name of NO religion. Whatever.

And yet, the point remains.

EVIL, is a human condition. The title card presented at the beginning of the drama may say something different, but in the end, the evil done is for purely human reasons.

And that, my good friend. Is the bottom line.

I will take religion totally out of the discussion, and that evil that is being done today in Africa, parts of Asia, even down into the jungles of South America, is HUMAN in origin.
 
There are positive aspects of religion, such as gaining a sense of community (by going to church). It gives people peace when it comes to hardships in their lives and makes them feel at ease with passing away. However, its not for me. I am too much of a practical thinker.
 
It seems like most evil results from an imbalance of natural and/or human resources and that's pretty much undebatable.
 
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That's a difficult question to answer definitively because it depends on one's perspective. Some people believe that religion does more harm than good because of instances of religious extremism, intolerance, and discrimination. Others argue that religion provides a moral compass for individuals and societies, fosters community and social cohesion, and promotes acts of kindness and charity. Ultimately, it's up to each individual to decide whether they believe religion does more harm than good and to what extent. I was born RC; however, I don't go to church daily or weekly, I do think there is a higher than us. :)
 
It's not about the religion itself, rather it's about the individuals and their actions.
Sometimes, people use religion as an excuse for what they do.
 

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”​

― Voltaire
 
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Religion is the cause of most of the world's problems because of all the fighting and killing committed in its name.
 
Religions has always been and always will be the root of all the problems. In politics, most decisions on either side are fueled by religion. In war, fueled by religion. How you run your business, same thing. Almost all of the main-line issues in the world stem from religion. I don't give a fuck that some people say "but they are misquoting the bible", it literally doesn't matter. If religion wasn't a thing, no one would give two shits about two gay dudes kissing each other. No one would give two shits about women getting an abortion. They care because their imaginary being tells them to.
 
Reddington said:
Religions has always been and always will be the root of all the problems.
Click to expand...

Meh. Greed and subsequently greedy religious leaders, perhaps. For example...

Reddington said:
In politics, most decisions on either side are fueled by religion.
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Not by the Amish, lol.

Reddington said:
In war, fueled by religion.
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Not by JW's, lol

Reddington said:
How you run your business, same thing.
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Not all religious people discriminate in commercial setting. And if one does, well that person's competitor down the street probably doesn't.

Reddington said:
If religion wasn't a thing, no one would give two shits about two gay dudes kissing each other.
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Even atheists and non-religious heterosexuals might see it as unnatural and gross. Many others don't think public displays of affection are appropriate, even between boys and girls, and particularly don't want their young children being exposed to it.

Reddington said:
No one would give two shits about women getting an abortion.
Click to expand...

A host of non-religious people still value human life, even of the unborn.

Reddington said:
Almost all of the main-line issues in the world stem from religion.
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It's more complex and deeper than that. Blaming religion in general is just short-sighted. Sure, you could pinpoint problems with specific religions, but there are over 4000 religions and many of them are benign. What you're really referring to is specific religions that don't align with your personal political, social, and moral positions.
 
Change the name of the thread to "IGNORANCE does more harm than good" and you've got something.


Pakistan: When a blasphemy accusation is evidence; the sentence often death​

A Lahore woman barely escaped with her life. But the problems run deeper than the mob that nearly lynched her.
Click to expand...
www.aljazeera.com

Pakistan: When a blasphemy accusation is evidence; the sentence often death

A Lahore woman barely escaped with her life. But the problems run deeper than the mob that nearly lynched her.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
I would tend to argue that the harm is done by organized religion that has become a structure for enforcing power rather than informing and enlightening the spirit. The medieval Roman Catholic Church, Protestant societies in up until the 18th or 19th century, and some modern Islamic societies all come to mind. Let's not forget that a segment of the US population hopes that electing Trump with a GOP majority will allow them to move the US to becoming a "Christian" society where their values will be enforced by the state (cf. current moves at the state level against abortion and LGBTQ rights).

Blasphemy laws (per post above me) provide a good example. They are more about enforcing an organized faith's doctrine on a societal level than actually honouring any kind of deity. Let's not forget that most Western countries had blasphemy laws on the books until fairly recently and those were passed by Christians seeking to "protect" Christianity in their societies. Canada's was only repealed in the tenure of the current PM, in 2018. Perhaps some countries still have them on the books.

On an individual level, or in a faith that is low on doctrine on high and supporting individual spiritual needs and explorations (Unitarian Universalism is one that I have been personally involved with, some of the progressive arms of Christianity come to mind as well), I do believe religion can do some good. It can provide comfort but also guidance in building a set of core values.

So the problem is not religion per se, but how to keep it from becoming just another mechanism for power and control rather than a means for understanding and building personal spirituality.
 
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I'm an atheist and I don't believe in a God or a Goddess. It's all make believe nonsense. We invented these because we cannot comprehend creation and how we came to be. Also most refuse to believe that this life is all that there is and want to believe that there is an afterlife. These same people believed in a Santa Claus and a Tooth Fairy when they were small children.

My so called mother is a Christian but she is one of these hypocrites that judges everyone else while sinning left, right, and center. My girlfriend is a practicing Wiccan and I love her enough to keep my mouth shut when she's casting spells or charms. It makes her happy and she feels fulfilled. Why should I object?

Religion can offer comfort to some, especially weak people who require a crutch to lean on. To others it can be a call to arms. Much ado about nothing IMO.
 
I am officially agnostic, but waver a lot on religion per se (which is why I use agnostic rather than atheist). My "religion", such as it is, is more pantheist than traditionally theistic. That is, I tend to see the universe as holy/sacred moreso than believing in a divine "Creator". But I do have a bit of an open mind and panentheism, belief in a deity who both encompasses and dwells in the Cosmos and is more of a guide than the control-freak of traditional Western religion, appeals at times. But I still don't align to any specific tradition and have read and been inspired by works from many traditions, even if I was raised Christian so tend that way still.
 
Nebulous said:
Agreed. They think they are totally justified too which is sad.
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Christopher Hitchens made a huge speech once about people who murder in the name of religion. In his speech, he described how it's being used more and more as an excuse for these people to do terrible shit to other people and then use religion as their excuse. It's a real problem in the world and it needed to stop a long time ago.

 
MrDawn said:
Do you think religion does more harm than good? Why or why not?
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Yes. Religion is a man made construct and men are corrupt, greedy, violent, narcissistic and therefore their 'gods' are, too.
 

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