I think the main part that causes concern is "who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing?"I agree with "Kazam".
I'm not sure I understand what Dee meant by her "quite frankly shocked" comment.
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I think the main part that causes concern is "who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing?"I agree with "Kazam".
I'm not sure I understand what Dee meant by her "quite frankly shocked" comment.
I think the main part that causes concern is "who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing?"
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I couldn't have said it better.
I believe there is a God, and in regards to what Stephen Fry said in that interview, maybe God has a plan so big and so complex that the entire hierarchy of values and standards of ethics that we base our current world on are not capable to contain it. Maybe God's view of the entire timeline since creation till the end of time is so sophisticated that it can't even be measured by our current thinking.
Oh, "He let a child die from bone cancer, so He must be evil". That's an ignorant atheist belief that shows the fact that they are not capable of seeing beyond their own set of principles, ethical and intellectual values. Who is to say that death is a bad thing? Who is to say that death is not just God's way of taking a soul into Heavens to save that human from living a horrible life filled with terrible events? Who is to say that the soul of the child didn't agree, before (s)he was born, to be sacrificed in exchange for something in God's plan? Who is to say that something better will become of said soul in the afterlife than it would have become had he lived a long human life?
And as far as beowulf's signature is concerned, who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing? Our current cultural standards of modern society? I'll show you tribes in Africa where children being sexually deflowered by the village "shaman" is considered a beneficial ritual that has to take place in order for the community to prosper because their gods demand it. It's all a cultural construct. Do you consider yourself superior to those people? Well, guess what? They consider themselves superior to us too.
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And as far as beowulf's signature is concerned, who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing?
First of all, I would appreciate it if you didn't insult me, cause I've been quite polite to everyone so far. Secondly, you don't have to know what something is like to have an opinion about it. You don't have to have have gay sex in order to know that you're not a homosexual. You don't have to be a drug addict in order to know that drugs are bad.Are you sick in the head. Do you know what it's like? Do you know anyone who has been abused?? Do you know how it affects them? It RUINS children's lives and they're adult life.
You are comparing a ritualistic act to a modern day society.
Yes, I know quite a few people who have been abused during childhood...
When did I say that? Now you're just putting words in my mouth. There is child abuse out there. I was just questioning whether God evaluates it by the same moral standards as hours. Normality is relative. What is normal for the spider it's chaos for the fly. By today's standards, allowing the devil to kill Job's family, take all his possessions and give him a painful illness would be a horrible act of cruelty. By God's standards, it was a test to verify Job's faith, test that Job passed. As a result, he earned himself eternal life in heaven, together with the souls of his family.because you'd already told us there is no such thing as child abuse.
Seeing how I don't believe in the pagan gods of the African tribes, I don't see why I would tell them that. But I have told them that all bad experiences in life may come from God's attempts to test us or from the structure of His plan for humanity. Some of them agreed with me, as they share my Christian views, others - who are atheists - disagreed, but that doesn't change in any way the fact that everything in this world is relative and a product of social construct.Impossible!!! You can't possibly know someone who's been "abused during childhood", because you'd already told us there is no such thing as child abuse.
You should tell those "quite a few people who have been abused during childhood" that you personally know and interact with that is wasn't really abuse - it's simply OUR social constraints and confines that make it seem so
and they should view their "abuse" as simply a "ritual"....yanno, a rite (right?) of passage.
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that doesn't change in any way the fact that everything in this world is relative and a product of social construct.
When did I say that?...
... who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing? Our current cultural standards of modern society? I'll show you tribes in Africa where children being sexually deflowered by the village "shaman" is considered a beneficial ritual...
First of all, I would appreciate it if you didn't insult me, cause I've been quite polite to everyone so far. Secondly, you don't have to know what something is like to have an opinion about it. You don't have to have have gay sex in order to know that you're not a homosexual. You don't have to be a drug addict in order to know that drugs are bad.
Now try to step back a little from your indoctrinated views and understand the fact that your horrified reaction is all because of a cultural construct. You were told all your life that children and sexuality don't mix. Creepy, perverted, horrible etc., whatever you may want to call it. Does the Bible mention anything about that? No, it doesn't. It condemns extramarital fornication. That's about it. So don't bring God into your modern age view on life and blame God for something that He may not evaluate by the same moral compass as you.
This conversation is over.
Thank you for your time.
I think the main part that causes concern is "who is to say that children being sexually abused is a bad thing?"
That is essentially why I found offense in the comments. The whole idea that something isn't technically bad because God has a plan and a reason for everything is rather sick, not because it's "wrong", but because not everyone believes in God and therefore cannot see the reason that is construed from His word. It may not be "bad" for some people (eg. a test of human strength/will/etc in which case that would be the reasoning), but for many, many people it is a very, very bad thing. And a lot of the very, very bad things--even if, going with the idea that God does exist--are still really very bad regardless of whether they have a reason behind them. This makes me wonder why any god or God would allow such a thing to happen, and why Stephen Fry's reasoning seems well placed.
I repeat: where did I say that there is no such thing as child abuse? You just quoted the part where I asked who is to say that child abuse is necessarily a bad thing? Read carefully: where. did. I. say. that. child. abuse. doesn't. exist?You're welcome.
Don't *make* me play secretary for you, again. If you can't remember what you type from post-to-post and/or are too lazy/too sickened by your own words to go back to find and read them for yourself,
perhaps a "Debate" forum isn't the best place for your *talents*.
Actually, they did not. Their parents didn't even know about it until they were in their late teen years. And they came from troubled families who could hardly afford food, much less counseling (by they way, that's ow it's spelled).And I glad for the people you speak of, they have dealt with well and made the best of they're lives, They probably had extensive counciling and more. some people that is not so easy.
I repeat: where did I say that there is no such thing as child abuse? You just quoted the part where I asked who is to say that child abuse is necessarily a bad thing? Read carefully: where. did. I. say. that. child. abuse. doesn't. exist?
Perhaps a forum isn't the best place for your *talents*, seeing how you have trouble comprehending what other people write.
Actually, they did not. Their parents didn't even know about it until they were in their late teen years. And they came from troubled families who could hardly afford food, much less counseling (by they way, that's ow* it's spelled).