Ban Appeals?

[Randy]

If you ran a forum would you allow people to appeal their bans? What is your ban appeal process?

 

[Smiley]

Sure, but they'd need a pretty good lawyer to sway my judgment.

 

[Sariki]

Not really no. I banned you for a reason. I find people don’t usually correct their mistakes. So I see no reason to allow them back.

 

[Smiley]

 

[Nebulous]

What is your ban appeal process?

There isn’t one, we don’t have any banned members. I suppose we’d create one if we had to ban someone, but if we did ban someone it wouldn’t be permanent right off the bat. We’d start out with (for example) a week, then a month, and so on.

One forum I’ve seen has a sub-forum for members who are in trouble and need a time out. They are restricted to that one sub-forum. They can’t see or post in any other forum on the board.

 

[Crys]

Nope. You've been banned for a reason. You will stay banned for that reason.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Nope. You've been banned for a reason. You will stay banned for that reason.

There may be cases where a misunderstanding occurred - what about those?

 

[Crys]

There may be cases where a misunderstanding occurred - what about those?

You will have to give examples of what you consider a misunderstanding.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

You will have to give examples of what you consider a misunderstanding.

You think a member is disrespecting you when it's just their natural communication style.
Perhaps the person has a learning disability and you've misinterpreted their words.

The point is... you don't know if you completely disallow ban appeals. Allowing appeals and rejecting them is different from disallowing them altogether.

 

[Crys]

You think a member is disrespecting you when it's just their natural communication style.
Perhaps the person has a learning disability and you've misinterpreted their words.

The point is... you don't know if you completely disallow ban appeals. Allowing appeals and rejecting them is different from disallowing them altogether.

I don't ban people over stuff like that. I'm talking about people that are openly hostile to the community and its members. Those who think everyone else is the problem and pick a fight every chance they get.

 

[MrDawn]

I don't ban people over stuff like that. I'm talking about people that are openly hostile to the community and its members. Those who think everyone else is the problem and pick a fight every chance they get.

I try to avoid those types. I'm surprised that they fail to see the reason or accept responsibility for why they're getting banned from multiple communities. Let alone members ignoring them when they go to post their bs. It's hard to reason with those kinds of people.

 

[Black Angel]

An appeal? What's that? (being sarcastic here..)

How is there an appeal? If you didn't listen the first two times then why shouldn't I ban you?

At some point, you just gotta cut your losses..

 

[~ True Legend ~]

An appeal? What's that? (being sarcastic here..)

How is there an appeal? If you didn't listen the first two times then why shouldn't I ban you?

At some point, you just gotta cut your losses..

This isn’t an appeal but rather a request to be banned, as to me, an appeal suggests the sanction is unfair or harsh.

What if a member was to come back as a changed person after they’re matured?

 

[MrDawn]

an appeal suggests the sanction is unfair or harsh.

I was in a court room once and someone getting sentenced told the judge that the punishment was unfair. The judge stated that once you break the law and violate boundaries, fair and unfair no longer apply because they were warned before hand and knew what they were doing was wrong.

 

[Crys]

This isn’t an appeal but rather a request to be banned, as to me, an appeal suggests the sanction is unfair or harsh.

What if a member was to come back as a changed person after they’re matured?

On a group I am on, a former member was banned for disruptive behavior against another member which also included stalking. Said member had been someone nice or at least that's how they appeared around the site. After a year, the member was allowed to appeal their ban and return. Everything seemed fine for a bit then they went back to doing the same thing to the same member that got them banned in the first place. There are some rare cases that people are genuinely remorseful and attempt to change but again rare. Most cases people don't change and administrators make the choice to protect the community and members by banning them permanently.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

I was in a court room once and someone getting sentenced told the judge that the punishment was unfair. The judge stated that once you break the law and violate boundaries, fair and unfair no longer apply because they were warned before hand and knew what they were doing was wrong.

Of course it’s fair to protect the community when said member does something wrong!


A ban appeal is for when it appears an honest mistake was made or if management went off on a power trip (and believe me, that does happen!)

On a group I am on, a former member was banned for disruptive behavior against another member which also included stalking. Said member had been someone nice or at least that's how they appeared around the site. After a year, the member was allowed to appeal their ban and return. Everything seemed fine for a bit then they went back to doing the same thing to the same member that got them banned in the first place. There are some rare cases that people are genuinely remorseful and attempt to change but again rare. Most cases people don't change and administrators make the choice to protect the community and members by banning them permanently.

Stalking is a serious crime! I feel like allowing a member back after something like that would be like saying “What you did wasn’t THAT bad”.

IMO it depends on what the member did. There’s a difference between stalking kids and hurling verbal abuse at admin while angry (of course assuming no threads have been made).

 

[MrDawn]

Of course it’s fair to protect the community when said member does something wrong!

We have to keep in mind that the first thing we do when we sign up to a forum is that we are accepting their Rules, Terms & Privacy Policy. Often accepting these terms is a transactional and permissible agreement. The guidelines on most forums are made very clear on what not to do. We are accepting these terms and when we violate them we are giving the staff of that forum permission to ban us and hold us accountable for when we repeatedly break those rules and violate the boundaries of other members. So when an abusive member breaks rules and uses "the unfair defense", it is still up to the staff of that forum on whether to accept their plea or reject it. Because that member agreed to follow the guidelines when they registered their account and they broke them anyway. Just like with the law, once you break it you advertently give those residing over the law permission to do with you as they see fit and you lose the right to have any say in the matter. Because you knew beforehand of what would happen should you break the law. They hold you responsible, ignore your protests, and do not care whether you're happy with the judgment or not.

A ban appeal is for when it appears an honest mistake was made or if management went off on a power trip (and believe me, that does happen!)

Sometimes there are mistakes that are made and I appreciate you wanting to give people another chance by giving them the benefit of the doubt. However there are narcissists and abusers who commonly resort to using those terms to justify their behavior. Calling a staff member power hungry by someone who is evidently trolling and breaking the guidelines is often seen as being manipulative, evasive, and deflective. They don't want to be held accountable. It's always someone else's fault. Those people lack the empathy and awareness that their behavior caused more damage than they realized because they do not want to own up to it. They lie to themselves and to others by telling everyone they were in the right. They down play it, which is insulting to the people they have wronged. This tactic does not help them. All it does is piss off staff even more. It's also the same with the court system when a prisoner makes an appeal and blames it on someone else or tells the court that they exaggerated their crime or claims the cop that arrested them was being unfair or didn't know what they were doing. The court doesn't want to hear that. They want the prisoner to blame their self and take personal accountability for their conviction. Admitting one's wrongs is the first step to being a better moral person.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

We have to keep in mind that the first thing we do when we sign up to a forum is that we are accepting their Rules, Terms & Privacy Policy. Often accepting these terms is a transactional and permissible agreement. The guidelines on most forums are made very clear on what not to do. We are accepting these terms and when we violate them we are giving the staff of that forum permission to ban us and hold us accountable for when we repeatedly break those rules and violate the boundaries of other members. So when an abusive member breaks rules and uses "the unfair defense", it is still up to the staff of that forum on whether to accept their plea or reject it. Because that member agreed to follow the guidelines when they registered their account and they broke them anyway. Just like with the law, once you break it you advertently give those residing over the law permission to do with you as they see fit and you lose the right to have any say in the matter. Because you knew beforehand of what would happen should you break the law. They hold you responsible, ignore your protests, and do not care whether you're happy with the judgment or not.



There are narcissists and abusers who commonly resort to using those terms to justify their behavior. They are seen as being manipulative, evasive, and deflective. They don't want to be held accountable. It's always someone else's fault. Those people lack the empathy and awareness that their behavior caused more damage than they realized because they do not want to own up to what they did. They lie to themselves telling everyone they were in the right. They down play it, which is insulting to the people they have victimized. This tactic does not help them. All it does is piss off staff even more. It's also the same with the court system when a prisoner makes an appeal and blames it on someone else. The court doesn't want to hear that. They want you to blame yourself for breaking the law. Just like staff often wants to hear members own up for breaking the rules or being disrespectful. Admitting one's wrongs is the first step to being a better moral person.

Agreed to a point. As I say allowing ban appeals does NOT mean that you can’t reject them. I’m just saying that it’s entirely possible that a staff member may have not had the full context of the information. Or new information comes to light.

I’m sure the majority of bans are fair, while I’m sure there are rare cases of mods going off on power trips or getting emotional. If an individual makes a decision, I think it’s a good idea for the appeal to be heard by a group to ensure a fair hearing.

And as for fairness… no offence intended but do you not think comparing forum rules to law breaking is absurd? Forums are privately owned and have the right to deny membership to undesirable guests. Fairness does not matter. Whereas in any disciplinary action at work or in a court of law, citizens have the legal right to not be discriminated against. And that may mean reasonable adjustments made or mitigations and extuenating circumstances lowering the sentence.

We also don’t want to come across overly heavy handed as we don’t want members to be scared off in case they make an honest mistake. There needs to be that balance between dealbreakers of behaviours we don’t tolerate and being open to discussion in the event of a misunderstanding. Of course there’s a chance of gaslighting but for a legitimate member to feel they’ve been heard fairly is important for them to feel welcomed.

 

[MrDawn]

do you not think comparing forum rules to law breaking is absurd?

Are laws not rules themselves?

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Are laws not rules themselves?

Some are, some aren’t. I don’t like to be too stern with members though. We don’y want to drive off well-intentioned members.