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Communism

Discord

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If you believe that the USSR, China, Cuba or North Korea was ever communist you are mistaken. You have been misled. They were fascist regimes.



To clarify, the true definition of Communism as Marx intended is a movement that aims for a stateless and classless society. On the most basic level, communism is the abolition of exchange-value. In a communist society, there is no state (everything is controlled by the people directly though workers' councils), there is no money (trading is essentially done away with) and there are no classes.



Countries like the USSR, for example, had wage labour and money economies. These countries called communist also had states. They were anything but communist. Also of note, there have never been communist countries (for a long period of time). Essentially, communism can be called anarchy (which is the lack of hierarchical organization, not organization itself.)



We will delve further into topics like workers' councils, exchange-value, what it means to be stateless and the problems presented by capitalism. If you have any questions so far, please ask them, I am fairly knowledgeable about Marxism. Also, if you have any reason to doubt what I've said so far, let me know. I don't feel like there is any room for debate as of right now, but there certainly will be.



EDIT: I think I'm going to update this topic with new information every week, probably Sunday. So you can use this topic to learn, ask questions and refute my statements.
 
Both the extreme left and extreme right are totalitarian, but there's still a difference in ideology. I wouldn't call them fascist, considering that term is used for the extreme right movement.
 
Those workers' groups sound an awful lot like a form of government, don't they?

Temerit said:
Is there a difference between communism and anarchy?
In communism you agree to anarchy.
 
Cranos said:
Both the extreme left and extreme right are totalitarian, but there's still a difference in ideology. I wouldn't call them fascist, considering that term is used for the extreme right movement.

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Temerit said:
Is there a difference between communism and anarchy?

Not really.



Evil Eye said:
Those workers' groups sound an awful lot like a form of government, don't they?

They are, but everyone is invited to join a workers' council (assuming they have the knowledge/skills for the particular job). Anarchy is not a lack of government or organization. It is a lack of hierarchical organization.
 
Well seeing as though I'm an anarchist I agree, however I do believe that there should be some form of power since without that it could be free for all.





However I do not agree with the government and I don't agree with most of the stuff they do.



So I'm with you on this one, I believe in both anarchism and communism
 
BeautifulAngel said:
Well seeing as though I'm an anarchist I agree, however I do believe that there should be some form of power since without that it could be free for all.

Not necessarily. Define free for all.
 
Discord said:
Not necessarily. Define free for all.



Well there is always going to be those people who would just go power crazy and kill anyone and everyone.



I know people who if it wasn't illegal to kill they would.. which is actually pretty creepy..
 
BeautifulAngel said:
Well there is always going to be those people who would just go power crazy and kill anyone and everyone.



I know people who if it wasn't illegal to kill they would.. which is actually pretty creepy..

The number of people that would do that is extremely low. As an anarchist, you should realize the root cause of crime, poverty. If we eliminate capitalism, we eliminate poverty. As for your second statement, if these people truly wanted to kill (for pleasure, I assume), they would. Laws written by those in power would not stop them.
 
Discord said:
The number of people that would do that is extremely low. As an anarchist, you should realize the root cause of crime, poverty. If we eliminate capitalism, we eliminate poverty. As for your second statement, if these people truly wanted to kill (for pleasure, I assume), they would. Laws written by those in power would not stop them.



True enough, and I do understand that poverty is a big reason for crime. However serial killers would never stop.. Until they themselves would get killed. Then again I'm sure if there was no government they'd catch the killer faster cause when someone see's the killer they won't have to call it in and report it, they just do what they have to do.



I guess it would all even out. I dunno I never really liked the government they are always up to something..
 
BeautifulAngel said:
True enough, and I do understand that poverty is a big reason for crime. However serial killers would never stop.. Until they themselves would get killed. Then again I'm sure if there was no government they'd catch the killer faster cause when someone see's the killer they won't have to call it in and report it, they just do what they have to do.



I guess it would all even out. I dunno I never really liked the government they are always up to something..

There is government in a communist society, there isn't a state.
 
Evil Eye said:
Now that I seriously doubt. There aren't enough resources on the planet for everyone to live a western lifestyle.

That aside though, there's no way you'll be able to eliminate human greed...

I can't really say much for the first statement because we haven't really clarified whether or not we're talking about the whole world or western lifestyle. Also, I would argue that people are inherently good, but due to the way society has always been structured, they become bad (ie greedy).
 
Discord said:
I can't really say much for the first statement because we haven't really clarified whether or not we're talking about the whole world or western lifestyle.
You know those things that promote recycling etc.?

They usually say something about how the western way of life is very wasteful and if everyone on the planet were to live that way we'd need some more planets.

Discord said:
Also, I would argue that people are inherently good, but due to the way society has always been structured, they become bad (ie greedy).
If that were true it (greed, the way society's structured) would never have started right?
 
Evil Eye said:
You know those things that promote recycling etc.?

They usually say something about how the western way of life is very wasteful and if everyone on the planet were to live that way we'd need some more planets.

In a communist society, I would suspect that this wasteful lifestyle wouldn't exist. As I said earlier, I'll be delving deeper into Marxist economics later.



Evil Eye said:
If that were true it (greed, the way society's structured) would never have started right?

Let me rephrase, most people are inherently good today. Humanity has changed significantly since the beginning of civilization. Primal instinct from our ancestors may have been what structured our society.
 
Discord said:
In a communist society, I would suspect that this wasteful lifestyle wouldn't exist. As I said earlier, I'll be delving deeper into Marxist economics later.
I'll be looking forward to that then.

Discord said:
Let me rephrase, most people are inherently good today. Humanity has changed significantly since the beginning of civilization. Primal instinct from our ancestors may have been what structured our society.
Has it really? I don't think humanity's changed much, civilization has of course.

Greed is the most basic form of survival of the fittest. The thirst for more, to be more, to have more.
 
Altruism is more characteristic of humanity than is selfishness or greed.



Social creatures such as humans don't strictly adhere to the mechanisms of natural selection as do animals that live alone due to the fact that they live in groups and often the survival of the individual is dependent of the survival of the group.
 
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