Futility of life?

[Fatal Dawn]

Do you believe in purpose in life?



It seems so easy to lose things. Your health, your money, your job, the people close to you, and even your life.



It's like a paradox. We treasure things knowing those things won't be around for long, knowing we won't be around for long. We try to say there is purpose to our lives. So many people die every day and have died and will continue to die and the world will continue to spin as it always has. It feels as if death is a more natural state of being and always has been.

 

[Katatonia]

I take a strong appreciation for a particular quote regarding life: I intend to live forever. So far, so good.



In some cases, people continue to live on well after death. John Lennon, Syd Barrett, Leonardo da Vinci, Pablo Picasso, Johnny Cash, Waylon Jennings, Ronnie Van Zant...they still live through their works and are still loved and appreciated as ever. I'd love to be able to do something like that. They'll never really be gone.

 

[DrLeftover]

Wow.



An actual philosophical and perhaps even metaphysical discussion!



damn





Their IS a purpose to the existence of Off Topix after all besides threads about reality TV shows and funny cat pictures.



same with life.

 

[Katatonia]

Wow.



An actual philosophical and perhaps even metaphysical discussion!



damn





Their IS a purpose to the existence of Off Topix after all besides threads about reality TV shows and funny cat pictures.



same with life.

I actually feel like there's not enough talk about TV 'round here.

 

[Evil Eye]

Do you believe in purpose in life?

In a way.

There's the natural purpose of procreation and furthering of your own kind... Anything beyond that is up to you.

It's like a paradox. We treasure things knowing those things won't be around for long, knowing we won't be around for long.

Doesn't that make it all the more valuable? Enjoy it while it lasts. And more importantly, while you last.

Immortality is no fun. Not in the long run.

There would be no reason to value other life, or art, or good food, or anything else. Something new will replace it soon enough, so there's no reason to value it.

Oh, there's some life on that planet? Doesn't matter, it'll die off soon enough anyway. I'll go have a look after I finish gazing at this star.

We try to say there is purpose to our lives. So many people die every day and have died and will continue to die and the world will continue to spin as it always has.

That doesn't mean none of them have fulfilled their dreams, nor should it be a reason to give up on your own.

Carve your name into history, for better or for worse. Become immortal in the minds and spirits of future generations.

Contribute or perish knowing your life has truly been wasted.

It feels as if death is a more natural state of being and always has been.

As there is life, there is death. Life without death isn't life at all. Stasis begets nothing.

I intend to live forever. So far, so good.

Hehe, that's what I believe.

An actual philosophical and perhaps even metaphysical discussion!

What did you think Dawn and I did before he came here?

 

[Fatal Dawn]

In a way.

There's the natural purpose of procreation and furthering of your own kind.

I suppose that's the most logical explanation. Then again in one of the other threads it was noted that technology will soon meet that biological demand in the near future. Procreation is no longer the priority it was at the beginning of civilization where are main objective was to go forth and be fruitful. Nature does have a way of making things obsolete.

Doesn't that make it all the more valuable? Enjoy it while it lasts. And more importantly, while you last.

Immortality is no fun. Not in the long run.

There would be no reason to value other life, or art, or good food, or anything else. Something new will replace it soon enough, so there's no reason to value it.

Oh, there's some life on that planet? Doesn't matter, it'll die off soon enough anyway. I'll go have a look after I finish gazing at this star.

I'm not immortal so I can only speculate on what rules an immortal person would play by. It really is beyond any human being's imagination. It might be depressing to keep friends knowing you will outlive them. However, mortals don't exactly treasure life either. Murder is uniquely a mortal creation.

That doesn't mean none of them have fulfilled their dreams, nor should it be a reason to give up on your own.

Carve your name into history, for better or for worse. Become immortal in the minds and spirits of future generations.

Contribute or perish knowing your life has truly been wasted.



As there is life, there is death. Life without death isn't life at all. Stasis begets nothing.

Fulfilling your dreams and fulfilling your purpose should not be confused. How many of us dream of being the wisest, strongest, most beautiful, etc.? In all the people of all the world throughout history, you think you are the only person who has such dreams? Face it, people only like to think their lives have meaning. As if their lives contain some innate form of uniqueness. I feel that is the precise reason we create such hopes and dreams in the first place. The universe doesn't cater to our purpose simply because we dream it.



Unless you are immortal, then you'd theoretically have as much time to accomplish everything you've ever dreamed of.

Unlike the things in life, death is a sure reality, it is not a dream. Life is suprisingly hard, death is suprisingly easy. I often wonder why we are given more time on this earth dead than alive? Maybe that is nature's way of telling us we have no purpose in the vast scheme of things.





History itself is ultimately a lie, your existence and purpose transcribed mostly out of perception and not contribution. As for the state of death. No one person will ever be dead longer than another. Think of it as multiplying by zero, the end is result is always zero. The state of death is an imaginary entity like zero - it's infinity. Anything times infinity is infinity. Whether you died 2 years later from someone or 200 years later from someone makes no difference.

What did you think Dawn and I did before he came here?

lol a blast from the past.

 

[Evil Eye]

Then again in one of the other threads it was noted that technology will soon meet that biological demand in the near future.

That still leaves us the furthering your species part (which made such things possible in the first place). Someone who solves world hunger but doesn't have kids would still be very useful.

I'm not immortal so I can only speculate on what rules an immortal person would play by.

True, but:

Unless you are immortal, then you'd theoretically have as much time to accomplish everything you've ever dreamed of.

Having infinite time to do a finite amount of things means you wouldn't exactly be motivated to finish it all today.

It really is beyond any human being's imagination. It might be depressing to keep friends knowing you will outlive them.

Only if you befriend another species

However, mortals don't exactly treasure life either. Murder is uniquely a mortal creation.

Well, it wouldn't really work if we were all immortal...

Nonetheless, if an average person (read: not insane or anything) were to kill someone (on purpose), they'd have a reason. Usually something along the lines of self preservation (rational or irrational) or furthering their tribe (rather than all of humanity).

Fulfilling your dreams and fulfilling your purpose should not be confused.

Could not a dream be turned into a purpose? I live to fulfill my dreams?

Face it, people only like to think their lives have meaning. As if their lives contain some innate form of uniqueness. I feel that is the precise reason we create such hopes and dreams in the first place. The universe doesn't cater to our purpose simply because we dream it.

True, we limit ourselves to that which we can comprehend. How else could we live? It would be far too depressing to see your own place. You know those zoom charts? Those things that start on Earth and then zoom out to show the vastness of the universe? Some people feel depressed just watching those, imagine knowing it all the time.



A life is not innately unique, a dream might make it so. Would Martin Luther King have been very special without his dream?

Also, dreams are something for us to cling to in desperate times. Something to stave away depression.



And I should hope the universe doesn't just cater to our dreams. Not only would it be rather unfulfilling, it would be outright dangerous.

Maybe that is nature's way of telling us we have no purpose in the vast scheme of things.

Wouldn't that be giving us too much credit? If we're truly unimportant, no one would bother to tell us.

Also, we're arguably not really here if we're dead, so saying we spend more time dead is not entirely... logical. (Not to mention the amount of space we'd all take if we all lived a 1000 years.)

History itself is ultimately a lie, your existence and purpose transcribed mostly out of perception and not contribution.

True, certainly, but perception can we shaped by contribution. Why else would we still know names of famous inventors?

Whether you died 2 years later from someone or 200 years later from someone makes no difference.

It could make a difference for the living.

lol a blast from the past.

Hehe, doesn't seem that long ago... You guys were rather surprised

 

[Fatal Dawn]

That still leaves us the furthering your species part (which made such things possible in the first place). Someone who solves world hunger but doesn't have kids would still be very useful.

As there is life, there must be death. That’s why you can’t kill off predators in the wild. Extinction, and killing off of species are all natural.



You help protect the lives of a few hundred in a small village and a hurricane wipes out another village – how have you really furthered species? What will be the point of managing to save even one life if another life will eventually die?

Well, it wouldn't really work if we were all immortal...

Some of us believe we are all immortal in one sense or another. Whether we return to earth via reincarnation or that we all have immortal, indestructible souls that live on after the body has died.

Nonetheless, if an average person (read: not insane or anything) were to kill someone (on purpose), they'd have a reason. Usually something along the lines of self preservation (rational or irrational) or furthering their tribe (rather than all of humanity).

You can’t help but believe that human beings are incapable of understanding one another. Our entire existence is a cycle of peace and turbulence.

Could not a dream be turned into a purpose? I live to fulfill my dreams?

The act of following a dream, does not make it a purpose, it makes it a rat race. How many of us dream of the same things? Success, money, acceptance, just following flights of fancy.

True, we limit ourselves to that which we can comprehend. How else could we live? It would be far too depressing to see your own place. You know those zoom charts? Those things that start on Earth and then zoom out to show the vastness of the universe? Some people feel depressed just watching those, imagine knowing it all the time.

That would be depressing if existence was measured that way. You could live until you were 100 years old and still there are microbial organisms that contribute more.

A life is not innately unique, a dream might make it so. Would Martin Luther King have been very special without his dream?

Also, dreams are something for us to cling to in desperate times. Something to stave away depression.

Again I believe that dreams can be held by many. If you study musicology one of the most interest questions is how musical groups form. These groups don’t just come and then people instantly flock to them. It’s because there were people who held the same views prior to their arrival. In other words celebrities only become popular because there are people that idealize that way of life. You can’t preach without a congregation.



Same thing here, during that era there were a good bit of people who were fighting for civil rights, but the single entity of one man – MLK concentrated those attitudes and embodied them. In all that became of that era he became the face of the movement. If it was uniquely his dream then that dream and all that it represented should have died when he died. It didn’t because it was not his unique dream, but the dream of many. You cannot kill an idea, an emotion, a dream – because many people share the same one.

Wouldn't that be giving us too much credit? If we're truly unimportant, no one would bother to tell us.

Also, we're arguably not really here if we're dead, so saying we spend more time dead is not entirely... logical. (Not to mention the amount of space we'd all take if we all lived a 1000 years.)

Why would a doctor bother telling someone they have days to live? Matter is never truly created or destroyed. Ashes to ashes, in a way every living person is partly a composition of every dead person. That’s assuming such time was allowable – remember my paradox of age. I believe society would be vastly different if such a thing occurred where humans lived 1000 yrs (assuming they’d still be what we know to be “human”).

True, certainly, but perception can we shaped by contribution. Why else would we still know names of famous inventors?

Because we are taught to know their names. Really I’m more concerned with their inventions.

It could make a difference for the living.

The point was that death is a constant variable in any form of life. No one is dead longer. So really unless you can remove that constant, life becomes rather... fatalistic. You manage to miraculously survive one thing but you have never shaken off death. It’s the illusion of hope.

 

[Temerit]

I'm not an existentialist at all, I just believe that life is whatever you make of it. There's endless possibilities and so much available, it's up to the individual to take advantage of it. Whether that means traveling the world, finding love helping others, doing scientific research, performing, working to improve society, developing technology or really just about anything.

 

[Evil Eye]

That’s why you can’t kill off predators in the wild.

I don't quite follow. Why wouldn't you be able to wipe out a species?

(Not gonna copy the rest of that paragraph, but I agree with it

)

You help protect the lives of a few hundred in a small village and a hurricane wipes out another village – how have you really furthered species? What will be the point of managing to save even one life if another life will eventually die?

It's a cumulative effect of course.

If enough improvements are made, there will be more births than deaths. How else would we have spread across the Earth? All humans must die, but a species thrives if more live than die.

Arguing advancing is pointless because the universe will end anyway is not quite right. Suppose enough advancements could stop that? Suppose enough advancements could stop all hurricanes. Giving up because it seems futile makes it impossible.

Some of us believe we are all immortal in one sense or another. Whether we return to earth via reincarnation or that we all have immortal, indestructible souls that live on after the body has died.

Well yes, but if we were all physically immortal, we wouldn't have murder.

Hmm, immortality is interesting. Imagine instantly being reborn with all your memories each time you die, death would be as meaningless as it is in certain games.

You can’t help but believe that human beings are incapable of understanding one another. Our entire existence is a cycle of peace and turbulence.

Somewhere there is a hint of understanding. This very conversation proves that, not to mention all the organisations and groups on this planet striving towards some common goal.

You just said it yourself, You can't preach without a congregation.

That would be depressing if existence was measured that way.

Indeed, unfortunately plenty of people do think that way.

If it was uniquely his dream then that dream and all that it represented should have died when he died.

Not so. If it was originally his dream and his alone, he could have shared it with people before he died.

After sharing it is no longer unique (and before it would be pretty rare, there are no original ideas after all).

You cannot kill an idea, an emotion, a dream – because many people share the same one.

This I am not so sure about, killing enough people should do the trick.

Why would a doctor bother telling someone they have days to live?

Because the doctor is human too and connected to a person on a far more personal level than the entire universe.

I believe society would be vastly different if such a thing occurred where humans lived 1000 yrs (assuming they’d still be what we know to be “human”).

That would certainly be an interesting sight. They wouldn't exactly be human, not biologically, but they could still be people. Anyway, I imagine most of the pacing of life would be different (thinking elves here). Basic education could be extended many years, there would be more time to finish projects. Less loss of information at each death because they would've had time to complete their work.

Unfortunately we can only speculate for now.

Because we are taught to know their names. Really I’m more concerned with their inventions.

Obviously the inventions themselves are more important, but the very fact that we are taught about these people should mean something. They left something people thought important enough to remember.

So really unless you can remove that constant, life becomes rather... fatalistic. You manage to miraculously survive one thing but you have never shaken off death. It’s the illusion of hope.

True, certainly. However, any potential afterlife would dispute this. Speaking of which, do those really even count as death?

 

[Sinon]

Life sucks, and then you die. - Louis Creed, Pet Cemetery by Stephen King.



I just look at it this way. My purpose in life is to find my purpose. I don't particularly need something higher to control or guide me in my life. My path is my own.



Life is a path, Death a destination. - Demon Hunter, I Have Seen Where It Grows

 

[Katatonia]

Life sucks, and then you die. - Louis Creed, Pet Cemetery by Stephen King.



I just look at it this way. My purpose in life is to find my purpose. I don't particularly need something higher to control or guide me in my life. My path is my own.Life is a path, Death a destination. - Demon Hunter, I Have Seen Where It Grows

Interesting that you're quoting that book because there's another sorta right line in it.



Sometimes, dead is better.