Gun Violence

[Jazzy]

With a recent barrage of senseless, deadly shootings in the headlines -- at a high school in Troutdale, Ore., Tuesday; a Seattle college campus last week; and UC Santa Barbara in Isla Vita, Calif., May 23 -- some experts say it's past time to start thinking about mass violence as a public health crisis.

Rather than just continuing to debate gun reform and the failings of the mental health system, they say the way to stop the cycle is to treat gun violence as a disease and involve health care workers in combatting it.

Many major medical organizations agree the healthcare community has an important role to play. In a policy paper published last month, the American College of Physicians stated that "firearm violence is not only a criminal justice issue but also a public health threat."

The group, which first began advocating to reduce gun violence in 1995, calls for physicians to "become more active in counseling patients about firearm safety."

It also urges doctors to join community efforts to restrict the ownership and sale of handguns -- a policy that puts it in direct conflict with the National Rifle Association and other gun rights organizations.

That position, too, been opposed by gun rights advocates who believe it would amount to involving federal health officials in gun control efforts.

Earlier this week at the American Medical Association's annual meeting, a fierce debate erupted over whether the AMA's Continuing Medical Education program should offer a course on gun violence prevention. Some members support the idea of integrating medical professionals -- not only mental health workers -- into anti-violence efforts. But others worry that this may put physicians in a position of becoming social workers, which is not something there is time for in a busy emergency room or doctor's office.

Controversy has also flared around the idea of whether doctors should ask patients whether they keep guns in the home. Some doctors believe it's appropriate, just like asking about other factors, like smoking or alcohol use, that impact a patient's health.

Source

Debate Questions:

1) Is gun violence a public health issue? Why / Why not?

2) Should doctors be allowed to ask patients whether they keep guns in the home? Why / Why not?

 

[DrLeftover]

The US does not have "a gun problem".

The US has a Criminal Problem.

 

[chanel]

Banning guns isn't the answer. My family was the victim of gun violence. It wasn't a school but a hair salon. 8 people died and numerous people shot. Banning guns wouldn't have stopped him.

 

[chanel]

So if guns are banned what will be next, knives, ropes, bow and arrows, anything sharp?

 

[Fatal Dawn]

Last week there was a string of fatal shootings where I live. Over time you get tired of hearing about this senseless loss of life. Sometimes it's not even criminal activity; as people just get shot over petty disputes, mistaken identity, or other spontaneous occurrences. With bats and other objects there is some hope of survival, but there's just no escaping a bullet. I also believe the amount of deaths caused by shootings far outnumbers other methods (stabbings, etc.). Whether gun fatalities are more reported is another issue, but FBI statistics also seem to support that there is no comparison.

I don't know if I would agree with the approach as I don't think treating it as a mental issue will curb violence. Millions of gun owners go their entire lives without shooting people. It's more about getting the guns away from the dangerous people. I do remember reading about something called the weapons effect; where guns can act as a primer or psychological channel for aggression, similar to how some studies suggest loud, aggressive music facilities road rage. However, I would argue that the weapons effect doesn't just apply to guns. And of course all that means is that guns aren't the source, but the channel.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Last week there was a string of fatal shootings where I live. Over time you get tired of hearing about this senseless loss of life. Sometimes it's not even criminal activity; as people just get shot over petty disputes, mistaken identity, or other spontaneous occurrences. With bats and other objects there is some hope of survival, but there's just no escaping a bullet. I also believe the amount of deaths caused by shootings far outnumbers other methods (stabbings, etc.). Whether gun fatalities are more reported is another issue, but FBI statistics also seem to support that there is no comparison.

I don't know if I would agree with the approach as I don't think treating it as a mental issue will curb violence. Millions of gun owners go their entire lives without shooting people. It's more about getting the guns away from the dangerous people. I do remember reading about something called the weapons effect; where guns can act as a primer or psychological channel for aggression, similar to how some studies suggest loud, aggressive music facilities road rage. However, I would argue that the weapons effect doesn't just apply to guns. And of course all that means is that guns aren't the source, but the channel.

You should look at the statistics for knife violence in Europe with people getting stabbed. The knife just replaced the gun over there.


Anyways if your doctor asks you if you have a gun its time to get a new one. Because you now know you have a left wing nut case who wants information thats none of there business.

 

[DrLeftover]

If guns Cause violence, then, matches cause arson.

Right?


And for years I reminded people that Teddy Kennedy's car had killed more innocent people than every firearm my entire family owns.

 

[DrLeftover]

Those damned guns were at it again.

Pakistan plane fired on during Peshawar landing
24 June 2014

Gunmen have opened fire on a passenger plane arriving at Peshawar airport in Pakistan, media and police say.

The Pakistan International Airlines plane - flight PK756 - was carrying some 178 passengers on a flight from Riyadh in Saudi Arabia.

One person has died from their wounds and and at least two were injured.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28010175

 

[Dee]

Debate Questions:

1) Is gun violence a public health issue? Why / Why not?

Going by that link from the article you quoted, it is a mental health crisis. Not all gun violence is caused by mental health issues. But the majority of them could be linked to some depending on the various degrees: depression, anxiety, aggression, drug abuse, etc.

For instance, the example of the shooting from Troutdale, which is about a 15-20 minute drive from where I live. I even took tests at that school, so that one hit a little closer to home. After hearing about information on why Jared Padgett did what he did, it seemed there were warning signs about a year or so before he shot and killed Emilio Hoffman.

It was said that he had withdrawn from his family and friends, got quieter, seemed more off for some reason as he entered into high school. He had a harder time adjusting, which is normal, but also something to be considered. I believe that the family was simply unaware of the kinds of signs they needed to look for to determine whether this was a serious problem, but it isn't exactly their fault because this country sees mental health issues as something to be ashamed of.

Had we picked up more steam behind it earlier on, I'm certain it would be easier to address mental health issues as opposed to brushing them off or simply being ignorant as to what to look for.

2) Should doctors be allowed to ask patients whether they keep guns in the home? Why / Why not?[/font][/size]

Like...a regular patient at an emergency hospital? Yes! Most hospitals have police and security presence anyway. And according to several incidents in the past with an active shooter with civilians present sporting concealed firearms, many of them had not been able to use their weapons because a) too much chaos (people running around, getting in the way), b) too scared to use their weapons, so on and so forth. So apparently having a concealed weapon isn't always going to be of much help, though I'm not saying it never has or never will be.

 

[Fatal Dawn]

Last week there was a string of fatal shootings where I live. Over time you get tired of hearing about this senseless loss of life. Sometimes it's not even criminal activity; as people just get shot over petty disputes, mistaken identity, or other spontaneous occurrences. With bats and other objects there is some hope of survival, but there's just no escaping a bullet. I also believe the amount of deaths caused by shootings far outnumbers other methods (stabbings, etc.). Whether gun fatalities are more reported is another issue, but FBI statistics also seem to support that there is no comparison.

I don't know if I would agree with the approach as I don't think treating it as a mental issue will curb violence. Millions of gun owners go their entire lives without shooting people. It's more about getting the guns away from the dangerous people. I do remember reading about something called the weapons effect; where guns can act as a primer or psychological channel for aggression, similar to how some studies suggest loud, aggressive music facilities road rage. However, I would argue that the weapons effect doesn't just apply to guns. And of course all that means is that guns aren't the source, but the channel.

You should look at the statistics for knife violence in Europe with people getting stabbed. The knife just replaced the gun over there.

The UN conducted a global study on homicide a couple of years ago and found that firearm homicides are far more prevalent in the Americas than Europe; proving your point. But, like other studies in the past, they did find a correlation between gun availability and homicide. http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Globa_study_on_homicide_2011_web.pdf

I do think that social and economic conditions contribute largely, so it's probably not the fairest assessment to compare violence across countries.

I'll speak for Baltimore city which has a big problem with gun violence, as this chart shows. What needs to be considered is that this chart takes into account only homicides. It's possible that some shooting murders are not even accounted for (such as manslaughter deaths caused by stray bullets -- which doesn't happen with the other types of weapons listed).

http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/

 

[DrLeftover]

See, there's this big town that has really tough gun laws for ordinary citizens.....

22 shot in Chicago over 12 hours, including girl, 11, killed at sleepover
July 19, 2014

Shamiya Adams was sitting on a bedroom floor in her best friend's home, making s'mores after an evening of practicing a dance routine, when the shot ripped through the house in Garfield Park.

The bullet crashed through the wall of the bedroom and struck the 11-year-old in the head. She was rushed to Mount Sinai Hospital, where family kept an overnight vigil until the girl was pronounced dead at 7:33 a.m. today.

...
In other shootings:

• A 30-year-old man was killed in the Austin neighborhood about 3 a.m. He was found in the front seat of a car, shot in the neck, back and shoulder in an alley next to Laramie Avenue just north of Madison Street. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

• Someone shot a 35-year-old man in the Englewood neighborhood about 3 a.m. He was wounded in the leg and taken to John H. Stroger Jr. Hospital of Cook County, police said. Police said the man was on a sidewalk when someone opened fire from inside a passing dark vehicle.

• A 15-year-old boy was shot in the West Englewood neighborhood about 12:50 a.m. He was sitting in a parked car, in the 7000 block of South Winchester Avenue, when someone in a passing white van opened fire, police said. The boy was taken to Holy Cross Hospital with an arm wound.......

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-chicago-shootings-violence-girl-killed-on-west-side-20140718,0,7102175.story


but the criminals don't see things that way.

 

[TommyTooter]

The US does not have "a gun problem".

The US has a Criminal Problem.

erm, what about the 45% of all suicides committed with handguns and the children who hurt themselves and others with guns they shouldn't have been able to access?

say all you like about criminals, but the fact remains, crime is not the all of gun deaths. people kill themselves. their kids kill people with their weapons and family members kill each other in crimes of passion. regardless of what gun nuts may think the 2nd amendment means, it does not give them the right to abrogate the rights of others by owning a gun that puts people at risk.

 

[TommyTooter]

I do think that social and economic conditions contribute largely, so it's probably not the fairest assessment to compare violence across countries.


i consider the closing paragraph of louis brandeis' dissent to the 1928 olmsted decision to be prophetic. people are just emulating a criminal government.

http://www.fjc.gov/history/home.nsf/page/tu_olmstead_doc_15.html

Decency, security and liberty alike demand that government officials shall be subjected to the same rules of conduct that are commands to the citizen. In a government of laws, existence of the government will be imperilled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. Our Government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that in the administration of the criminal law the end justifies the means—to declare that the Government may commit crimes in order to secure the conviction of a private criminal—would bring terrible retribution. Against that pernicious doctrine this Court should resolutely set its face.

 

[DrLeftover]

DA: 2 more guns found at hospital shooter’s home

July 26

PHILADELPHIA — Authorities have found two more guns at the home of a man suspected of killing his caseworker and grazing his psychiatrist before the doctor pulled out his own weapon and fired back.

Officials say 49-year-old Richard Plotts remained sedated Saturday, two days after he was shot at a suburban Philadelphia hospital complex.

Delaware County officials say Plotts remains under guard and won’t be arraigned on murder charges until he awakens.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/official-hospital-gunman-intended-to-kill-others/2014/07/26/59e96d84-148a-11e4-ac56-773e54a65906_story.html


Who stopped the shooting there?

 

[Evil Eye]

The US does not have "a gun problem".

The US has a Criminal Problem.

erm, what about the 45% of all suicides committed with handguns and the children who hurt themselves and others with guns they shouldn't have been able to access?

Criminal negligence?

 

[TommyTooter]

The US does not have "a gun problem".

The US has a Criminal Problem.

erm, what about the 45% of all suicides committed with handguns and the children who hurt themselves and others with guns they shouldn't have been able to access?

Criminal negligence?

absolutely! i firmly believe there should be very stiff penalties for the owners of weapons that are used by children or older family members in a crime of passion or an accidental shooting.

 

[DrLeftover]

4 August

James Brady, who served as White House press secretary under President Ronald Reagan and was badly wounded in the assassination attempt against Reagan in 1981, has died. He was 73.

Brady, later in life, became an active and outspoken advocate for gun control, and lobbied for stricter handgun and assault-weapon laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/04/james-brady-white-house-press-secretary-under-reagan-dies/