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Should taxpayers have to pay for a convicted murderer's sex change?

Jazzy

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In a potentially groundbreaking ruling, a federal judge has ordered Massachusetts to let a transgender prisoner undergo a sex-change operation — and make taxpayers foot the bill. Prison officials oppose the surgery, worrying that they won't be able to keep a male-turned-female inmate safe in an all-male prison after a sex change. But Chief U.S. District Judge Mark Wolf said that was a poor excuse. Wolf based his ruling on recommendations from Department of Correction doctors, who said the procedure was the only form of adequate medical care for the inmate, Michelle Kosilek.



Who is Michelle Kosilek?

In 1993, Kosilek, who then went by Robert, was convicted in the 1990 murder of his wife, Cheryl Kosilek. Also in 1993, Kosilek officially changed his name to Michelle. Diagnosed with severe gender identity disorder, Kosilek has been living as a woman in an otherwise all-male prison in Norfolk, Mass., for the last two decades.



What does Kosilek want?

Kosilek says she needs a sex-change operation, and argues that the state has a duty to provide it. Everybody has the right to have their health care needs met, whether they are in prison or out on the streets, she says. People in the prisons who have bad hearts, hips, or knees have surgery to repair those things. My medical needs are no less important or more important than the person in the cell next to me. Kosilek first sued the Department of Corrections 12 years ago. Judge Wolf ruled two years later that Kosilek should receive treatment, but he didn't order the operation, which can cost $20,000. Kosilek has been receiving hormones, but says that's not enough, and sued again in 2005, arguing that an operation was not a choice, but a medical necessity.



Why did the judge change his mind?

Kosilek has attempted self-castration, and twice tried to commit suicide, according to court documents. Wolf now says that even though his ruling is unprecedented, the surgery is the only way doctors see to adequately treat Kosilek's condition, and that denying her request would amount to a violation of the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. Wolf, who was appointed to the bench in 1985 by Ronald Reagan, writes that the government can't deny an inmate necessary medical treatment just because it is controversial and unpopular.




Question: Do you think denying the sex-change request would amount to a violation of the Eighth Amendment? Why or why not?
 
Evil Eye said:
I'm rather inclined to say, No, let him pay for that., but if he's gonna kill himself over it something has to be done... unless they don't care about that, of course.

He's a murderer, if he wants to kill himself let him.
 
I think a major point of contention here is trying to define what is medically necessary. Personally, I am skeptical that such a procedure is medically necessary since the sex-change operation is to be performed primarily for external reasons to adapt to a hostile social environment, but that is just my opinion from a sitting distance. I am in no authority to dictate what is medically necessary. I understand Evil Eye's point of view, though. I have heard of instances in hospitals, prisons, and other such establishments where trans-sexuals were placed in risky situations because institutions have been largely indiscriminate and indifferent in the manner in which they regard and treat gender identity. To start imposing limitations and restrictions on what is deemed 'medically necessary' based on ethnocentric intepretations is especially dangerous ground as far as human rights is concerned.
 
He is an incarcerated inmate.



The State is only obligated to maintain the condition he arrived in until the time of his release.



Sex Change Surgery isn't life preserving.



But this is the People's Reublic of Massachusetts, so... he'll probably get his teeth capped and hair extentions as well.
 
Just_Me said:
Yeah l couldn't give a monkey's once they go in because the fact that they are going in means they're not nice people.

Personally, I would stray from making such an inference. As I have assumed you have recognized that the judicial system is marked by imperfections and disparities and is largely responsible for why so many disadvantaged members of society are in the penal system to begin with.





+Mr. Jazzy said:
I say no, he needs to deal with it himself or kill himself, one less idiot in the prison system...



I know that's a bit harsh, but I do not care about people/monsters that commit horrific crimes, and try to make the public bow down to their needs...



THEY GET NO SPECIAL TREATMENTS NOR TAX MONEY, period...

I don't want to discredit your rationale, rather challenge it. I find it more fiscally responsible to keep the inmate population healthy to start with, as opposed to ignoring such issues and having to pay for more costly complications in the future. Prevention is a much more frugal investment. Using the example you've provided, suppose he attempts suicide and fails? Much more financial expenditures arise from this complication; from recovery expenses, counseling, and other rehabilitation services.
 
Just_Me said:
l am much more concerned about the bad guys that are on the streets that should be behind bars then l am about the good guys behind bars that shouldn't be there.

Yes its wrong but a good guy behind bars can't hurt anyone but can fight to get free. A bad guy on the streets can present a threat to myself and everyone else and really doesn't give a damm if he gets caught.
I disagree for the very simple reason that, using this logic, it would be better to lock everyone up and then find out who's guilty and who isn't. Now, that may be the way it worked/works in some places, but that doesn't make it any better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion

Just_Me said:
If the government can pay for a convicted murders sex change then they can damm well pay for anyone else's as well.
Hmm, yeah.
 
Just_Me said:
Not saying that at all.
I know that (well, I suspected as much, I'm not psychic).

However, what I said can be inferred from what you said and that's what's bothering me. I'm sure you have the best intentions, but the same can't exactly be said for everyone. Opening the door just a little could end badly, hence my disagreeing.
 

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Welcome to Offtopix 👋, Visitor

Off Topix is a well-established general discussion forum that originally opened to the public in 2009! We provide a laid-back atmosphere, and our members are down to earth. We have a ton of content, and fresh stuff is constantly being added. We cover all sorts of topics, so there's bound to be something inside to pique your interest. We welcome anyone and everyone to register and become a member of our awesome community.

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