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2014- Western Intervention Against ISIS

Webster

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Rather than continue the conversation in the other thread, here's a new thread for discussion of the Western intervention agst. ISIS and other Islamic militants in the Middle East, especially now as Britain prepares to enter the fight alongside the U.S.,...

The Guardian: RAF Aircraft In Air Over Iraq, Ready To Join U.S. In Attacks
Two Tornado jets and a refuelling aircraft have taken off from the RAF base at Akrotiri Cyprus, according to Britain’s Ministry of Defence (MOD).

The MOD has just lifted an embargo on the reporting of the departure of the aircraft this morning. It’s believed that they are still in the air over Iraq at the moment.

The mission is an extension of the reconnaissance work which the tornados have been doing for some time but they are now ready to be used in an attack role following yesterday’s parliamentary vote.
 
Nebulous said:
How do you feel about the western intervention against ISIS?

As much as I would love to see the West just wash its' hands of the Middle East and let Israel just go rogue on the whole region, this is one of those times where there really are no good options except to contain ISIS, keep them from advancing, roll them back and eventually destroy them. But its' not just going to be a military fight over there; as I've said in a few other threads, this is not just a military fight but a diplomatic fight and a cultural fight as well and it does us no good to win one and lose the other two in turn.
 
DrLeftover said:
You cannot engage in traditional diplomacy with a group who firmly believes that is is OK to lie to one that is not a member of your own religion, and indeed, is encourages if telling the lie advances the cause of your religion.

So, what's your solution, Doc, kill them all and let God sort it all out? :whistle::whistle::whistle:
 
Odd that you would quote the sentiment of the Albigensian Crusade against a group of French Heretics.

The line was supposedly the order to the soldiers of the French King operating on behalf of the Pope.

More:

http://www.executedtoday.com/2009/07/22/1209-albigensian-crusade-cathars-beziers/


Brutal. Yes.

But it works.
 
THE ONE has spoken.

We Shall All Assume The Position and Listen to Our Dear Leader.

28 Sept

President Obama acknowledged that the U.S. underestimated the rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS, also called ISIL) and overestimated the ability of the Iraqi military to fend off the militant group in an interview that will air Sunday on 60 Minutes.

The president was asked by 60 Minutes correspondent Steve Kroft about comments from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has said the U.S. not only underestimated ISIS, it also overestimated the ability and will of the Iraqi military to fight the extremist group.

"That's true," Mr. Obama said. "That's absolutely true."

"Jim Clappper has acknowledged that I think they underestimated what had been taking place in Syria," he said, blaming the instability of the Syrian civil war for giving extremists space to thrive.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-u-s-underestimated-rise-of-isis-in-iraq-and-syria/
 
Good to know my tax is going towards a worthy cause of bombing children.
 
On 60 Minutes, the president faulted his spies for failing to predict the rise of ISIS. There’s one problem with that statement: The intelligence analysts did warn about the group.

Nearly eight months ago, some of President Obama’s senior intelligence officials were already warning that ISIS was on the move. In the beginning of 2014, ISIS fighters had defeated Iraqi forces in Fallujah, leading much of the U.S. intelligence community to assess they would try to take more of Iraq.

But in an interview that aired Sunday evening, the president told 60 Minutes that the rise of the group now proclaiming itself a caliphate in territory between Syria and Iraq caught the U.S. intelligence community off guard. Obama specifically blamed James Clapper, the current director of national intelligence: “Our head of the intelligence community, Jim Clapper, has acknowledged that, I think, they underestimated what had been taking place in Syria,” he said.

Reached by The Daily Beast after Obama’s interview aired, one former senior Pentagon official who worked closely on the threat posed by Sunni jihadists in Syria and Iraq was flabbergasted. “Either the president doesn’t read the intelligence he’s getting or he’s bullshitting,” the former official said.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/28/why-obama-can-t-say-his-spies-underestimated-isis.html



Where's the cries of "He Lied and They Died?"
 
Princess Alexandros XVII said:
Good to know my tax is going towards a worthy cause of bombing children.

yeah really...

some people rather let the government take their tax money and bomb children yet they despise the government when they take that same tax money from them to feed the children...

i wonder how many children israel slaughtered over in gaza/palestine...
 
+Justice said:
i wonder how many children israel slaughtered over in gaza/palestine...

Probably not too many more than the Palestinians killed making them dig their tunnels.


A similarly cavalier approach to child labor and tunnel fatalities damaged the movement’s standing with human-rights groups, despite government assurances dating back to 2008 that it was considering curbs. During a police patrol that the author was permitted to accompany in December 2011, nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials. Safety controls on imports appear similarly lax, although the TAC insists that a sixteen-man contingent carries out sporadic spot-checks.

http://palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/42605
 
DrLeftover said:
+Justice said:
i wonder how many children israel slaughtered over in gaza/palestine...

Probably not too many more than the Palestinians killed making them dig their tunnels.


A similarly cavalier approach to child labor and tunnel fatalities damaged the movement’s standing with human-rights groups, despite government assurances dating back to 2008 that it was considering curbs. During a police patrol that the author was permitted to accompany in December 2011, nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials. Safety controls on imports appear similarly lax, although the TAC insists that a sixteen-man contingent carries out sporadic spot-checks.

http://palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/42605

how do you know if those children were being forced or not? you don't think perhaps they wanted to do it for their people and to live? pretty much all, if not all countries, nations, groups, tribes, empires, kingdoms, etc. has had children that joined the ranks of the workforce and military force... weather they were being forced to or not... not saying it's a good thing or not but if they wanted to help their own people then that wouldn't even be considered the same thing as one country bombing children...
 
+Justice said:
DrLeftover said:
+Justice said:
i wonder how many children israel slaughtered over in gaza/palestine...

Probably not too many more than the Palestinians killed making them dig their tunnels.


A similarly cavalier approach to child labor and tunnel fatalities damaged the movement’s standing with human-rights groups, despite government assurances dating back to 2008 that it was considering curbs. During a police patrol that the author was permitted to accompany in December 2011, nothing was done to impede the use of children in the tunnels, where, much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies. At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials. Safety controls on imports appear similarly lax, although the TAC insists that a sixteen-man contingent carries out sporadic spot-checks.

http://palestine-studies.org/jps/fulltext/42605

how do you know if those children were being forced or not? you don't think perhaps they wanted to do it for their people and to live? pretty much all, if not all countries, nations, groups, tribes, empires, kingdoms, etc. has had children that joined the ranks of the workforce and military force... weather they were being forced to or not... not saying it's a good thing or not but if they wanted to help their own people then that wouldn't even be considered the same thing as one country bombing children...

I'm done being baited again.

You might as well change your name back.
 
i'm not baiting you doc, defend your posts or your posts don't mean squat...
 
At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials.

compared to:

During the nearly month-long military offensive on Gaza prior to the short ceasefire, Israel killed 448 children and injured 2,502, according to United Nations estimates. As of 8 August, the death toll in Gaza had reached 1,922.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/charlotte-silver/448-children-killed-israeli-attacks-gaza-un-says

and that was back in 8th of august...


Palestinian health officials say 2,139 people, most of them civilians, including more than 490 children, have been killed in Gaza since Israel launched Operation Protective Edge on 8 July.

Israel's death toll stands at 64 soldiers and six civilians, including a four-year-old boy who died after a Hamas rocket hit a house in Eshkol.

The IDF claimed more than 3,700 rockets had been fired towards Israel by 20 August and it had destroyed 32 Hamas tunnels and killed 750 alleged militants and commanders.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-50day-war-by-numbers-9693310.html
 
DrLeftover said:
You cannot engage in traditional diplomacy with a group who firmly believes that is is OK to lie to one that is not a member of your own religion, and indeed, is encourages if telling the lie advances the cause of your religion.

Given the current state of affairs in the Middle East, I'm almost of the opinion that Pres. Obama shouldn't taken the idea of heavy combat forces off the table...

DrLeftover said:
Odd that you would quote the sentiment of the Albigensian Crusade against a group of French Heretics.

The line was supposedly the order to the soldiers of the French King operating on behalf of the Pope.

More:

http://www.executedtoday.com/2009/07/22/1209-albigensian-crusade-cathars-beziers/


Brutal. Yes.

But it works.

...and on that point, I'm almost tempted to wonder, Doc, if we shouldn't just let Israel turn the whole of that part of the world into one big, nuclear-fired glass table....
 
nuclear bombs are not needed any ways, much better ones that don't have as much of an effect afterwards, than the nuke...
 

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