Why thank you! From the likes of you that is a amazing compliment that is badge of honor[/quote]. It is very much on topic but it does not fit your anti gun narrative.
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2nd amendment rights for white only?
- Thread starter TommyTooter
- Start date
- Status
Why thank you! From the likes of you that is a amazing compliment that is badge of honor[/quote]. It is very much on topic but it does not fit your anti gun narrative.
. It is very much on topic but it does not fit your anti gun narrative.TRUE LIBERTY said:
[/quote]
further demonstration of your lack of intellectual ability and reading comprehension to call my narrative anti-gun, since it's not and that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread. i fully support people's rights to keep and bear arms, but i object to the lack of any well-regulated militia as outlined in the second amendment.
TommyTooter said:
further demonstration of your lack of intellectual ability and reading comprehension to call my narrative anti-gun, since it's not and that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of the thread. i fully support people's rights to keep and bear arms, but i object to the lack of any well-regulated militia as outlined in the second amendment.
[/quote]
Its very much anti gun your agenda is. You just try and further your agenda with this kind of topic using nonsense and untruths.
TRUE LIBERTY said:
Its very much anti gun your agenda is. You just try and further your agenda with this kind of topic using nonsense and untruths.
[/quote]
dude, you're a pigheaded, misinformed bigot. go away. you're intellectually incompetent and unworthy of attention.
FRI AUG 08, 2014 AT 04:57 PM PDT
Why Black Men Don't Open Carry
byVyanFollow
Not everything that happens in the world is Racial. It really isn't. Some things happen just because - well they did and they do. However there are times you really have to question things, you really have to wonder - what the Holy Hand-Grenade is going on here?
Particularly when you have a case when one kid with an actual loaded shotgun stands down with police and refuses to give them his ID basically gets a citation when that kid happens to look like this...
A Colorado teen, stopped by the police for toting a loaded shotgun on the streets of Aurora, Colorado where James Holmes killed 12 and wounded seventy in a packed movie theater in 2012, claims he is doing it to make the public feel more “comfortable” around guns.
Steve Lohner, 18, was recently stopped by police responding to 911 calls alerting them about the teen. When asked to provide ID proving his age, Lohner refused to do so, while videotaping the encounter (seen below) on his phone. The teen subsequently posted the video online, according FOX13.
In the video, Lohner explains to an officer that he is the process of returning home after buying cigarettes. When asked why he’s carrying a shotgun, Lohner replies, “For the defense of myself and those around me.”
...
Lohner then proceeds to argue with the officers, refusing to show them ID or hand over the shotgun insisting he hasn’t committed a crime before being cited by the officer on a misdemeanor obstruction charge for refusing to show his identification
According to Lohner, who says he’s been stopped multiple times and never had to show ID, he’s on a mission to make people more comfortable about guns.
“If enough people were to lawfully open carry in those areas and do it in a safe and lawful manner then these people would end up feeling comfortable around it,” he explained.
And remember, he's doing this in Aurora Colorado, home of the Holmes Theater Shooting, [and not far from Littleton where Columbine High is located] - and his goal is to make people feel "more comfortable" about people walking around with long guns, cuz somewhere - somehow - that's a "Good Thing".
Then you have another kid - well 22 year-old man - with a TOY in his hands who gets barely a warning before he gets shot down like a dog in the aisle at Target Walmart when he happens to look like this...
The mother of Crawford’s children said she was speaking to him by cell phone when he was confronted by police in the store.
“He said he was at the video games playing videos, and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were,” said LeeCee Johnson. “The next thing I know, he said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting, and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him.”
“I could hear him just crying and screaming,” Johnson said. “I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.
One of these things is not exactly like the other - can you guess what the difference is?
Both times someone had a weapon and 911 was dialed in response. In one situation you have a kid walking around with a actual loaded weapon who refuses to comply with the police lawful requests, and he gets to go along his way with a citation while keeping the weapon - in the other situation we have a young man who didn't actually have a legitimate weapon - he had a toy - and although they say he didn't comply with requests to "drop the weapon" I think a legitimate argument could be made that as far as he was concerned He Didn't Have a Weapon, he had a TOY!
He said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting...
Just how much time did they give him to comply? A second? Two seconds? Three? Tell me something, how good are your reflexes? Mine are pretty good, and I run into people all the time who move like molasses compared to me, but even I don't think I could suss out what people were wrongly thinking and respond properly in under a couple seconds.
And the end result of his "non-compliance" is that now he's dead, and people are blaming Him for his own shooting. Because he had a Toy in his hands.
Let me give you a personal example from just yesterday that shows how the mindset of some people, due to facts and fairly recent history, just have to be different from the mindset of people like Lohner.
It was hot yesterday. I was home, working on my laptop all day and I was sweating. I decided to go out and run to the store to pick up some trash bags so we could do some cleaning but before I went I washed myself up - didn't feel like a shower for such a quick trip - changed my t-shirt and headed out. I'm about 5 steps outside the door and my mom comes after me...
"Where are you going smelling like that?"
"To the Store for a sec, but I just cleaned up and..."
"Well, then it's your clothes that smell.. you got this whole house stinking."
"I know, I just changed shirts and..."
"Well, you don't want to cops to smell you and think you're a bum - They'll Shoot You Down!"
In point of fact I've actually been physically assaulted by a local pan-handler not a few weeks ago - which was rare and weird because several of them are actually friends of mine who've given me things since I almost always give them spare change - and the cops came up to get them off me, so I kinda know where that local cops a) Don't tend to shoot "Bums" on sight and b) Can tell who is who when it comes to who deserves there attention and who doesn't. It didn't used to be that way in L.A., but these days are now better than those days used to me. Much. Not perfect, but better.
Now imagine what she would have thought if I had decided I wanted to go for a little stroll with her .357 stuck in my waist band. Just cuz I wanted to make people "Feel More Comfortable seeing someone armed?"
Yeah, that's not gonna happen anytime soon. End of digression.
Why is it we never hear all the open carry guys, like this kid Lohner or say Ted Nugent complain that armed people - even those who don't even have a loaded real weapon - like Crawford should have a RIGHT to walk around with a pretend loaded weapon if they feel like it?
It's not like you can make the argument that Crawford was "committing a crime" - he was Shopping. He wasn't a "Sizzurp Slurping Hoodie Teen Thug Criminal" - he was a Consumer.
But that's not how those in the store saw it.
The former Marine who called police said Crawford looked to be attempting to load the black air rifle and ignored police commands to drop the weapon.
“He looked like he was going to go violently,” said Ronald Ritchie. “If he would have dropped the weapon, he could have came out with his life, but unfortunately, he didn’t.”
The department’s chief, Dennis Evers, said officers Sean Williams and David Darkow acted appropriately.
"Acted appropriately" they did, he "looked like he was going to go violently"? How exactly does that look when at the time he was on the phone with his kid's mother?. How many people are about to do something violent and it's like...
"Hang on a sec girl, gotta shoot someone now..."
How do you load an air-rifle when you've got a cell phone in one hand? Tuck it against your shoulder, while you fiddle with the gun? How much damage is he going to do with an unloaded air-rifle anyway? I just don't see how this level of panic and deadly force is really justified against someone whose minding his own business, shopping and holding a TOY IN HIS HANDS that he might buy should be treated.
I mean, why exactly didn't he get treated the way that these guys did?
And you would think considering how the NRA first attacked Open Carry Texas, and then apologized for calling them "Weird and Scary" claiming it was an "unauthorized" and "unapproved" post, then this below ought to be a picture that NRA Open Carry/2nd Amendmenters should absolutely LOVE! But for some reason, they really don't.
The above picture I found on google, but the source page was from Pat Dollard who posted it under the title “We Gotta Do It”: Black Panthers Declare Violent “Race War” On “White Devils”, Demand “Bloodshed”
[Note: From what people have pointed out in the comments, these are not members of the U.S. "New Black Panthers" - they may not even be from this continent and may indeed by militants from Africa.]
Because clearly those guys with Guns is "Scary" and obviously "They're about to get Violent" but these guys - are not. Cuz.. I don't know, gee, don't they just look cuddly? Cuddly like Ted Bundy, the Zodiac Killer or the Boston Strangler - but still cuddly.
I just don't get it. What could it possibly be that is different about these situations? Maybe we need higher wisdom on this. Perhaps - yes - we need the Wisdom of St. Ronnie to help us clear all this up. Obviously our frail merely human wisdom does fail us now.
What would, when faced with a pack of brazen and proud open carriers, the Great Ronald Reagan do in response to respect our great noble traditions and preserve our precious 2nd Amendment Rights?
Yes, according to Adam Winkler, a professor of constitutional law at UCLA School of Law and author of "Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America."
Winkler said over the weekend on NPR's "On the Media":
"One of the surprising things I discovered in writing 'Gunfight' was that when the Black Panthers started carrying their guns around in Oakland, Calif., in the late 1960s, it inspired a new wave of gun control laws (audio). It was these laws that ironically sparked a backlash among rural white conservatives, who were concerned that the government was coming to get their guns next.
"The NRA mimicked many of the policy positions of the Black Panthers, who viewed guns not just as a matter of protection for the home, but something you should be able to have out on the street, and also protection against a hostile government that was tyrannical and disrespectful of people's rights. . . . "
So apparently the Black Panthers were once something the NRA felt they could emulate in the use of Open Carry to promote personal freedom and advance the cause of the 2nd Amendment. Until that all went south..
As governor of California, Reagan signed the Mulford Act into law in 1967. Written by Republican Assemblyman Don Mulford, the legislation was the most sweeping state edict in all the country, prohibiting the more or less free carrying of firearms in public. It went along with the rest of his heavy-handed entire law-and-order agenda and inspired an avalanche of new gun laws nationwide.
The purpose of the law was to disarm the Black Panthers, a radical leftist group that openly carried firearms, kept an eye out on the police, and even took their rifles to the state Capitol to protest what they decried as racist legislation.
Now in theory, the goals of self-defense and keeping a watchful eye on government overreach should place people like the New Black Panther Party and say - Cliven Bundy - in common cause.
But for some reason - one single solitary issue I just can't quite put my finger on - that just doesn't seem to happen. They just can't seem to get it together.
And I wonder what that issue could possibly be. Hmmm.... Just what. is. it?
Any ideas?
Vyan
7:15 PM PT: News Report Video (If it embeds)[video=yahoo]http://www.daytondailynews.com/videos/news/girlfriend-of-man-shot-at-walmart-describes-events/vCmkDM/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/08/1320164/-Why-Black-Men-Don-t-Open-Carry#
Why Black Men Don't Open Carry
byVyanFollow
Not everything that happens in the world is Racial. It really isn't. Some things happen just because - well they did and they do. However there are times you really have to question things, you really have to wonder - what the Holy Hand-Grenade is going on here?
Particularly when you have a case when one kid with an actual loaded shotgun stands down with police and refuses to give them his ID basically gets a citation when that kid happens to look like this...
A Colorado teen, stopped by the police for toting a loaded shotgun on the streets of Aurora, Colorado where James Holmes killed 12 and wounded seventy in a packed movie theater in 2012, claims he is doing it to make the public feel more “comfortable” around guns.
Steve Lohner, 18, was recently stopped by police responding to 911 calls alerting them about the teen. When asked to provide ID proving his age, Lohner refused to do so, while videotaping the encounter (seen below) on his phone. The teen subsequently posted the video online, according FOX13.
In the video, Lohner explains to an officer that he is the process of returning home after buying cigarettes. When asked why he’s carrying a shotgun, Lohner replies, “For the defense of myself and those around me.”
...
Lohner then proceeds to argue with the officers, refusing to show them ID or hand over the shotgun insisting he hasn’t committed a crime before being cited by the officer on a misdemeanor obstruction charge for refusing to show his identification
According to Lohner, who says he’s been stopped multiple times and never had to show ID, he’s on a mission to make people more comfortable about guns.
“If enough people were to lawfully open carry in those areas and do it in a safe and lawful manner then these people would end up feeling comfortable around it,” he explained.
And remember, he's doing this in Aurora Colorado, home of the Holmes Theater Shooting, [and not far from Littleton where Columbine High is located] - and his goal is to make people feel "more comfortable" about people walking around with long guns, cuz somewhere - somehow - that's a "Good Thing".
Then you have another kid - well 22 year-old man - with a TOY in his hands who gets barely a warning before he gets shot down like a dog in the aisle at Target Walmart when he happens to look like this...
The mother of Crawford’s children said she was speaking to him by cell phone when he was confronted by police in the store.
“He said he was at the video games playing videos, and he went over there by the toy section where the toy guns were,” said LeeCee Johnson. “The next thing I know, he said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting, and they said ‘Get on the ground,’ but he was already on the ground because they had shot him.”
“I could hear him just crying and screaming,” Johnson said. “I feel like they shot him down like he was not even human.
One of these things is not exactly like the other - can you guess what the difference is?
Both times someone had a weapon and 911 was dialed in response. In one situation you have a kid walking around with a actual loaded weapon who refuses to comply with the police lawful requests, and he gets to go along his way with a citation while keeping the weapon - in the other situation we have a young man who didn't actually have a legitimate weapon - he had a toy - and although they say he didn't comply with requests to "drop the weapon" I think a legitimate argument could be made that as far as he was concerned He Didn't Have a Weapon, he had a TOY!
He said, ‘It’s not real,’ and the police start shooting...
Just how much time did they give him to comply? A second? Two seconds? Three? Tell me something, how good are your reflexes? Mine are pretty good, and I run into people all the time who move like molasses compared to me, but even I don't think I could suss out what people were wrongly thinking and respond properly in under a couple seconds.
And the end result of his "non-compliance" is that now he's dead, and people are blaming Him for his own shooting. Because he had a Toy in his hands.
Let me give you a personal example from just yesterday that shows how the mindset of some people, due to facts and fairly recent history, just have to be different from the mindset of people like Lohner.
It was hot yesterday. I was home, working on my laptop all day and I was sweating. I decided to go out and run to the store to pick up some trash bags so we could do some cleaning but before I went I washed myself up - didn't feel like a shower for such a quick trip - changed my t-shirt and headed out. I'm about 5 steps outside the door and my mom comes after me...
"Where are you going smelling like that?"
"To the Store for a sec, but I just cleaned up and..."
"Well, then it's your clothes that smell.. you got this whole house stinking."
"I know, I just changed shirts and..."
"Well, you don't want to cops to smell you and think you're a bum - They'll Shoot You Down!"
In point of fact I've actually been physically assaulted by a local pan-handler not a few weeks ago - which was rare and weird because several of them are actually friends of mine who've given me things since I almost always give them spare change - and the cops came up to get them off me, so I kinda know where that local cops a) Don't tend to shoot "Bums" on sight and b) Can tell who is who when it comes to who deserves there attention and who doesn't. It didn't used to be that way in L.A., but these days are now better than those days used to me. Much. Not perfect, but better.
Now imagine what she would have thought if I had decided I wanted to go for a little stroll with her .357 stuck in my waist band. Just cuz I wanted to make people "Feel More Comfortable seeing someone armed?"
Yeah, that's not gonna happen anytime soon. End of digression.
Why is it we never hear all the open carry guys, like this kid Lohner or say Ted Nugent complain that armed people - even those who don't even have a loaded real weapon - like Crawford should have a RIGHT to walk around with a pretend loaded weapon if they feel like it?
It's not like you can make the argument that Crawford was "committing a crime" - he was Shopping. He wasn't a "Sizzurp Slurping Hoodie Teen Thug Criminal" - he was a Consumer.
But that's not how those in the store saw it.
The former Marine who called police said Crawford looked to be attempting to load the black air rifle and ignored police commands to drop the weapon.
“He looked like he was going to go violently,” said Ronald Ritchie. “If he would have dropped the weapon, he could have came out with his life, but unfortunately, he didn’t.”
The department’s chief, Dennis Evers, said officers Sean Williams and David Darkow acted appropriately.
"Acted appropriately" they did, he "looked like he was going to go violently"? How exactly does that look when at the time he was on the phone with his kid's mother?. How many people are about to do something violent and it's like...
"Hang on a sec girl, gotta shoot someone now..."
How do you load an air-rifle when you've got a cell phone in one hand? Tuck it against your shoulder, while you fiddle with the gun? How much damage is he going to do with an unloaded air-rifle anyway? I just don't see how this level of panic and deadly force is really justified against someone whose minding his own business, shopping and holding a TOY IN HIS HANDS that he might buy should be treated.
I mean, why exactly didn't he get treated the way that these guys did?
And you would think considering how the NRA first attacked Open Carry Texas, and then apologized for calling them "Weird and Scary" claiming it was an "unauthorized" and "unapproved" post, then this below ought to be a picture that NRA Open Carry/2nd Amendmenters should absolutely LOVE! But for some reason, they really don't.
The above picture I found on google, but the source page was from Pat Dollard who posted it under the title “We Gotta Do It”: Black Panthers Declare Violent “Race War” On “White Devils”, Demand “Bloodshed”
[Note: From what people have pointed out in the comments, these are not members of the U.S. "New Black Panthers" - they may not even be from this continent and may indeed by militants from Africa.]
Because clearly those guys with Guns is "Scary" and obviously "They're about to get Violent" but these guys - are not. Cuz.. I don't know, gee, don't they just look cuddly? Cuddly like Ted Bundy, the Zodiac Killer or the Boston Strangler - but still cuddly.
I just don't get it. What could it possibly be that is different about these situations? Maybe we need higher wisdom on this. Perhaps - yes - we need the Wisdom of St. Ronnie to help us clear all this up. Obviously our frail merely human wisdom does fail us now.
What would, when faced with a pack of brazen and proud open carriers, the Great Ronald Reagan do in response to respect our great noble traditions and preserve our precious 2nd Amendment Rights?
Yes, according to Adam Winkler, a professor of constitutional law at UCLA School of Law and author of "Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America."
Winkler said over the weekend on NPR's "On the Media":
"One of the surprising things I discovered in writing 'Gunfight' was that when the Black Panthers started carrying their guns around in Oakland, Calif., in the late 1960s, it inspired a new wave of gun control laws (audio). It was these laws that ironically sparked a backlash among rural white conservatives, who were concerned that the government was coming to get their guns next.
"The NRA mimicked many of the policy positions of the Black Panthers, who viewed guns not just as a matter of protection for the home, but something you should be able to have out on the street, and also protection against a hostile government that was tyrannical and disrespectful of people's rights. . . . "
So apparently the Black Panthers were once something the NRA felt they could emulate in the use of Open Carry to promote personal freedom and advance the cause of the 2nd Amendment. Until that all went south..
As governor of California, Reagan signed the Mulford Act into law in 1967. Written by Republican Assemblyman Don Mulford, the legislation was the most sweeping state edict in all the country, prohibiting the more or less free carrying of firearms in public. It went along with the rest of his heavy-handed entire law-and-order agenda and inspired an avalanche of new gun laws nationwide.
The purpose of the law was to disarm the Black Panthers, a radical leftist group that openly carried firearms, kept an eye out on the police, and even took their rifles to the state Capitol to protest what they decried as racist legislation.
Now in theory, the goals of self-defense and keeping a watchful eye on government overreach should place people like the New Black Panther Party and say - Cliven Bundy - in common cause.
But for some reason - one single solitary issue I just can't quite put my finger on - that just doesn't seem to happen. They just can't seem to get it together.
And I wonder what that issue could possibly be. Hmmm.... Just what. is. it?
Any ideas?
Vyan
7:15 PM PT: News Report Video (If it embeds)[video=yahoo]http://www.daytondailynews.com/videos/news/girlfriend-of-man-shot-at-walmart-describes-events/vCmkDM/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/08/08/1320164/-Why-Black-Men-Don-t-Open-Carry#
Not sure what the point of that article is of half truths is? I can show endless youtube videos of all races who try and open carry get arrested. And I am pretty sure it will be far more whites then blacks.[/quote]
as well it should be because of the much larger proportion of whites in the population, but again, can you show some hard data to back your assertion?
notice that other than being black, your examples are fitting profiles of professional black men unlikely to be enterdetained just because they're black and packing. i think one of the things that rambling article was trying to point out is that there are a lot of other factors at play besides race. class has become much more important than race in the current era.
when i was hiding myself as a hippie hairbag, i caught a lot of grief from the fuzz for being dirty trying to earn a living in public without a license and i'm white. i've also seen black and hispanic officers coming down hard on poor blacks and hispanics for no good reason other than that they were characters who were deemed undesirable by the merchant associations the cops were actually serving and protecting.
personally, i'm very much in favor of pistol packing in public because i think it's a better deterrent to crime than the cops. punks are going to think twice about robbing somebody in a crowd if there's the likelihood of people ready to shoot them in it. that epidemic of people running up and cold cocking people was pretty well nipped in the bud when a few got wasted by armed victims or witnesses, a couple of them senior citizens, when the cops were completely unable to stop it or catch anybody.
i think the assault rifles are pointless and unnecessarily inflammatory. the potential for needing a pistol in a typical public setting is infinitely higher than finding yourself in the middle of a fire fight. this is why i advocate for the well regulated militias as specified in the 2nd amendment. if you want to own and carry around heavy hardware fine, but you should report monthly like the national guard for serious training and maneuvers with your neighbors.
notice that other than being black, your examples are fitting profiles of professional black men unlikely to be enterdetained just because they're black and packing. i think one of the things that rambling article was trying to point out is that there are a lot of other factors at play besides race. class has become much more important than race in the current era.
when i was hiding myself as a hippie hairbag, i caught a lot of grief from the fuzz for being dirty trying to earn a living in public without a license and i'm white. i've also seen black and hispanic officers coming down hard on poor blacks and hispanics for no good reason other than that they were characters who were deemed undesirable by the merchant associations the cops were actually serving and protecting.
personally, i'm very much in favor of pistol packing in public because i think it's a better deterrent to crime than the cops. punks are going to think twice about robbing somebody in a crowd if there's the likelihood of people ready to shoot them in it. that epidemic of people running up and cold cocking people was pretty well nipped in the bud when a few got wasted by armed victims or witnesses, a couple of them senior citizens, when the cops were completely unable to stop it or catch anybody.
i think the assault rifles are pointless and unnecessarily inflammatory. the potential for needing a pistol in a typical public setting is infinitely higher than finding yourself in the middle of a fire fight. this is why i advocate for the well regulated militias as specified in the 2nd amendment. if you want to own and carry around heavy hardware fine, but you should report monthly like the national guard for serious training and maneuvers with your neighbors.
TommyTooter said:
Code:
I hope so. I would fully expect to be stopped if I looked crazed or dressed like a para military soldier walking down the street with my 1911 on my hip. As I would expect a black man dressed as hoodlum get questioned. Act and dress sensible and you more then likely will not be bothered. Or should not be bothered. I see it no different then expect to be pulled over if you are driving in a dangerous manner.nice to see we're finding the same page. people pack pistols all over tucson and if there's nothing else about them out of the ordinary, you don't even notice it.
Code:
This of course I disagree on your interpretation of the 2nd amendment as we have discussed before.also don't you think a business owner should be able to ban guns from their establishments regardless of what the 2nd amendment says? they have the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason they want to establish. look at where the supreme court went with the hobby lobby ruling. that's going to stick to guns a whole lot harder than it's going to stick to gays. you can count on that.
TommyTooter said:
Code:
Absolutely its there business and they have that right. But have to admit I carry concealed and have ignored those store rules.i've been pretty much all over america mixing with all manner of folks in my life. i come from a factory and farming background and have been shooting since i was about seven, so i'd rather instead of labeling me 'anti-gun', look at me as 'pro-regulation', as i see the constitutional intent that we are in disagreement about. regarding gun safety, responsibility and appropriate behavior when packing in public, i think we see pretty well eye to eye.
i have never and probably never will shoot a living creature, i acknowledge a person's right to shoot a pest or something to eat, but vigorously oppose trophy hunting. if i ever shoot something, it will be bambi's daddy for food and raw material for crafting.
my personal primary concern in the general gun argument is the human rights of the people that are violated when the gun is used on oneself, a family member or a crime of passion or simply by accident, followed not too far behind by a completely unregulated, heavily armed and patriotically aroused redneck rabble supported by the totally unregulated information ocean these yahoos surf on, getting each other riled up and prepping for the inevitable moment when the great bubbling cauldron of shit stew boils over into the rapidly rotating shaft of the collossal fan that keeps the life force flowing through the multiverse. .
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