Ethical to Eat Meat?

[Nebulous]

Tell us your opinion: Is it okay to eat meat? Do you? Should there be reforms in the ways that meat is obtained, processed and sold? Do you know people who are vegetarians or vegans? Is meat truly an important part of a well-balanced diet, or might humans be better off without it?

 

[DrLeftover]

I worked with an

hang on while I get this right

Evangelical Vegetarian Feminist Lesbian

yeah, that was it

for several years.

On the few occasions when we went out to lunch together, I let all the lettuce and tomatoes live wild and free, and she saved all the chickens and pigs from an untimely death.

And we both checked out the waitress.

 

[identityissues8]

I'm becoming more and more conflicted as time goes on about eating meat. I do it, I know where it comes from, I know it's halal.

I just, I just don't know, man.

There's no such thing as ethical slaughter, and breeding things to kill and eat them to me somewhere in my mind seems so barbaric.

I think I'll be going back to vegetarian. I just don't know when...

 

[DrLeftover]

For those who do not know, 'halal' (allowed) and 'haram' (forbidden) also depend on the method of raising and killing the animal such as the techniques involved with kosher meat.

Even if something is allowed under Jewish dietary law, such as beef, but is incorrectly killed and processed, it cannot be made kosher in the kitchen. So it is under Islamic dietary law, Beef and certain other animals are OK, pork and vultures and so on are forbidden, but the animals allowed have to be killed in the name of Allah and the blood totally drained.

For several years, I was the backup 'label reader' for the various non-medical dietary needs of long term guests of the State and became familiar with their requirements.

In most cases, if a Muslim has a question about something, they'll look for the (K) seal, which means it meets the more stringent Jewish law.

If they don't see it, and they cannot find out whether or not it is halal, they'll pass on it and order the garden salad, WITHOUT the bacon bits thank you very much.

For more on the topic, see
http://halalcertificate.com/

 

[Jazzy]

For those who do not know, 'halal' (allowed) and 'haram' (forbidden) also depend on the method of raising and killing the animal such as the techniques involved with kosher meat.

Even if something is allowed under Jewish dietary law, such as beef, but is incorrectly killed and processed, it cannot be made kosher in the kitchen. So it is under Islamic dietary law, Beef and certain other animals are OK, pork and vultures and so on are forbidden, but the animals allowed have to be killed in the name of Allah and the blood totally drained.

For several years, I was the backup 'label reader' for the various non-medical dietary needs of long term guests of the State and became familiar with their requirements.

In most cases, if a Muslim has a question about something, they'll look for the (K) seal, which means it meets the more stringent Jewish law.

If they don't see it, and they cannot find out whether or not it is halal, they'll pass on it and order the garden salad, WITHOUT the bacon bits thank you very much.

For more on the topic, see
http://halalcertificate.com/

That was very informative and interesting. Hope identityissues8 comes back and addresses this.

 

[JetWing34]

Meat is good for you because it packs a lot of protein needed every day.

 

[Nebulous]

Meat is good for you because it packs a lot of protein needed every day.

Thanks for the random nutrition fact, but what do you think about the ethics behind processing / eating meat?

 

[Evil Eye]

Ethical... probably not. It gets a bit better if the animals are cared for well, but even so.
Not going to stop eating meat though.

 

[Jazzy]

Ethical... probably not. It gets a bit better if the animals are cared for well, but even so.
Not going to stop eating meat though.

Well said and I agree with you.

 

[identityissues8]

For those who do not know, 'halal' (allowed) and 'haram' (forbidden) also depend on the method of raising and killing the animal such as the techniques involved with kosher meat.

Even if something is allowed under Jewish dietary law, such as beef, but is incorrectly killed and processed, it cannot be made kosher in the kitchen. So it is under Islamic dietary law, Beef and certain other animals are OK, pork and vultures and so on are forbidden, but the animals allowed have to be killed in the name of Allah and the blood totally drained.

For several years, I was the backup 'label reader' for the various non-medical dietary needs of long term guests of the State and became familiar with their requirements.

In most cases, if a Muslim has a question about something, they'll look for the (K) seal, which means it meets the more stringent Jewish law.

If they don't see it, and they cannot find out whether or not it is halal, they'll pass on it and order the garden salad, WITHOUT the bacon bits thank you very much.

For more on the topic, see
http://halalcertificate.com/

You are spot on from what I can see, though I'm not too sure on what you have said about Kosher and Halal being simply 'interchangable' (unless I misread you.)

Halal slaughter has it's own method, which is preferable (mandatory if available) for a Muslim to eat. We can settle for Kosher in dire circumstances however.
Similarly, when it comes to a matter of life and death in Islam something like Pork comes permissible for us (again, though, only in a matter of life or death.)

I will say, I've never eaten Kosher food and have never had to (it's very scarce in Australia for starters, we have a very small Jewish community) as I live in a suburb with only one strip of shops, and in it happens to be at least 5 halal eateries and 2 halal butchers. Next suburbs over, there's a whole street of halal eateries and 4 halal butchers (this is what I can count, their could be more...)

In Australia, you see the Halal symbol on packets more so than you see something labelled as Kosher. I've been told (though I'm not sure) not too many countries have such a widespread halal certification body as we do.

In essense, halal food in Australia (including the more stringent details - any gelatine being halal, additives and emulsifiers passing the test and not even containing the tiniest trace of alcoholic content) is very easy to come by.

(I hope I understood you post, Dr.)

At the end of the day, though, to elaborate on my post I'm still at a moral conflict. I eat meat, I LOVE seafood (this is another difference between Halal and Kosher, as all seafood is automatically halal) but I have a hard time with something dying for my sustinence.
I'm not saying it should be banned or outlawed, though. I'm not attaching anything to Islam, I'm not making the halal haraam, or the haraam halal (DrLeftOver explained those terms. ) Which are the parts that make vegetarianism and Islam tricky (one's intentions in their decision.)
But at the same time, I see a need for meat in my life...But I can live without...But I choose not to...But I may choose to...

See what I mean guys. I've been standing at a crossroad for a few months now. Switching between vegetarian 'starting today' and 'screw it, I eat (halal) meat'...

 

[DrLeftover]

Yes, you understood what I was trying to say quite well.

My experience was based solely on a couple of unique situations, and not on life at large for the civilian population although there are certain parallels. And as you mentioned, both systems are somewhat compatible when 'out in the world'.

Thank you for your insight as well. It is always interesting to read real life accounts from another part of the world.

 

[Sinon]

I find people tend to ignore the fact that fruits and vegetables are also "living".

I'm fine with eating meat. I don't really care about the ethical treatment or whatever, because when it comes down to it, no matter how well you treat the animals, you're still going to cut them into pieces and feed them to people. With an end like that, the means don't really matter.

I could never be a vegetarian. I like salad, but it isn't something I'd want to live on. I've been told "tofu is just like beef!" to which I say "then why bother eating tofu?"

 

[identityissues8]

Tofu is nothing like Beef.
Whoever told you that either has some very strange ideas of what Beef or Tofu is like.

 

[Evil Eye]

Tofu is nothing like Beef.
Whoever told you that either has some very strange ideas of what Beef or Tofu is like.

Indeed and I've had both last Sunday.

 

[Jazzy]

Never had Tofu. Can anyone tell me what it tastes like?

 

[Nebulous]

Never had Tofu. Can anyone tell me what it tastes like?

Same here, I've seen it at the grocery store a million times and never had any desire to buy it.

 

[Jazzy]

Hopefully someone can tell us what it tastes like.

 

[Red Herring]

Why wouldn't it be, as I always say? We Humans are omnivores that require meat for a balanced diet and body development. Unfortunate as it may be to put an end to an animal's life to provide us sustenance, it's simply how nature works. Animals hunt and kill other animals all of the time, sometimes even just for sport as opposed to simply providing a meal. And I'd say it's more ethically "wrong" to deny an animal its baser instincts than to kill an animal for sustenance.

I have nothing against vegetarians, however, and if they want to fight against their nature (which could actually end up successful, in a very long run), then they're welcome to do so. I do find their argument that it's ethically wrong to butcher animals for meat to be rather hypocritical though. Many of them forget that vegetation itself is very much alive, and there's even some evidence that plants can indeed "feel", albeit in a way different to Humans. In the end, eating vegetation still means stamping out the life of another lifeform.

One of the problems I have with this debate in general is that it tries to apply Human black and white morality to Nature, an area that is completely and utterly grey in every sense of the ethical definition.