European Union

[The Dragon Master]

Is the EU a good idea or not?



Do you think it should continue with the single currency, and possibly a single government, or should it just be there to regulate trade (for example)?



Do you like your country being in the EU? Why, why not?



For me, I don't like the EU. I'd like it to go back to the idea of making trade between countries more fare rather than push for the single currency and handing off powers to Brussels. It's caused more problems than enough. To me it also takes away the individualisation of a country if it gives up it's currency and powers, and takes away some of the culture of a country. With the way the EU is heading now, I don't particularly want the UK to be in the EU, but if we're not in the EU then we may miss out on trade and such. Another thing I hate about the EU is the European Court of Human Rights... Good idea but it's a pain in the arse when they give more human rights to a criminal than the law abiding citizen.

 

[Evil Eye]

In theory it's all nice and dandy.

In practice... well, it could definitely do with some polishing.



As for national pride or culture, borders only exist where we imagine them. We're all human and that's enough for me.

 

[DrLeftover]

The original idea was to make a United States of Europe.



Oh well.

 

[seasidemike]

I love being part of the European Union, my only concern is how we are moving to a United States of Europe which I think were tricked into by the debt crisis. I also think that it should be limited; it is growing too big to fast and considering countries that are not really part of Europe. It could implode if not careful.



But I like the concept and I like the freedom of movement when travelling through Europe and not having to exchange money. I actually avoid going to European countries that are not on the single currency.

 

[Geoffrey]

I don't really know that much about how the EU works, or the fine details of it's problems, but I would say there's a very fine line of where it should be and where it shouldn't be. I think it's a relatively good idea - better than most, but I'm not sure I'd prefer to see it continued as is rather than disbanded. It would definitely be interesting to see how Europe functions without it in place, perhaps they could some sort of temporary dissolvement, then reconvene to possibly reorganize the member nations if the being completely independent doesn't work out? It would allow the nations to see what they really need the EU for, and what they can do on their own. Some may be fine, and may choose to not rejoin, but others may see they do only need trade regulations so they may reform the Union to be just for tha tpurpose.



@ DrLeftover: That's an interesting idea. Would it be set up similar to the USA? I could see that working out if done right, most European nations are similar in size to our states, so it's definitley not impossible.

 

[seasidemike]

we already know how Europe functions without it.. two world wars within 50 years... this is now the longest period of peace in Europe in recorded history.

 

[DrLeftover]

I wonder if those in Bosnia and that area would agree with that statement.





http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/04/20-years-since-the-bosnian-war/100278/

 

[seasidemike]

I wonder if those in Bosnia and that area would agree with that statement.





http://www.theatlant...ian-war/100278/

Bosnia is not yet in the European Union. Croatia is next to join this coming July.



Back at that time shortly after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there we a number of issues in Eastern Europe as countries regained their independence. The war in Bosnia clearly one of the worst of them.

 

[DrLeftover]

It may not be in the EU, but it is in Europe, as to the statement I was answering.



And given the current financial climate, Croatia may come in as a couple of others exit.

 

[seasidemike]

It may not be in the EU, but it is in Europe, as to the statement I was answering.



And given the current financial climate, Croatia may come in as a couple of others exit.

Everyone likes to talk about the financial crisis in Europe and the EU breaking up, but given the financial situation in the USA you would think that that question would be if the USA will break up? The financial debt per citizen in the USA is higher than any of the worst in debt country in the EU, including that of Greece.



The EU as a whole the debt is at €22 per citizen, in the USA it is at $52 per citizen.



The EU breaking up makes for good news headlines, but it is not going to happen.

 

[DrLeftover]

There is serious talk in several US States of succession.



However, right now, it is just talk as well.



Also, as of today, 22 Euros is just a tick over 29 Dollars. So you are on your way to equaling US debt per person.

 

[seasidemike]

There is serious talk in several US States of succession.



However, right now, it is just talk as well.



Also, as of today, 22 Euros is just a tick over 29 Dollars. So you are on your way to equaling US debt per person.

I can’t agree with you this one, I guess time will tell.



I think that the difference between $29 & $52 is actually a lot; furthermore the countries that are in the worst debt in Europe are going through austerity measures with billions being cut out of their national budgets. I know this first hand as I am in Ireland which is one of the countries which is now cutting another €2Billion from the budget, on top of the €3 Billion last year and the €4 Billion the previous year.



I think that this is why the perception is of a breakup of the union because in many of these countries there are serious protests against the cuts.



The US government solution is to just increase the debt threshold and allow further debt to accumulate.



None of us will be breaking up, it is not what the puppet masters want. We sold out freedom for debt.

 

[DrLeftover]

Our puppet masters simply sold out for no reason at all.



So, you think the Brits will withdraw the referendum on leaving the EU?

 

[seasidemike]

Actually that is a good question.

The Brits have always been on the outer limit of the EU. It is the only of the large markets that kept its own currency. Even if they do though it will not be completely out, it will be a revised membership and the EU will continue with or without them.

 

[DrLeftover]

But things are just peachy elsewhere.

Yet the clearest signal from Italy's otherwise muddy election was its rejection of ever more austerity in a contracting economy.

The polls showed no single political force with a majority in Italy's two houses of parliament and about half the electorate opposed the prior government's policies of austerity.

Rejection of the sort of additional budget-cutting that any ECB backstop would require casts some doubt on what scope that leaves the central bank if it opts to execute the government bond buying program it calls Outright Monetary Transactions.

This is a very clear protest against austerity and the implications are potentially profound, said Russell Silbertson, Head of Global Interest Rates at Investec Asset Management.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-investment-italy-reaction-idUSBRE91Q06J20130227

 

[seasidemike]

No, not peachy at all. There are all sorts of issue, but I don't think that the issues will become the end of the EU.

 

[DrLeftover]

And then you have....

Portugal is seeking to renegotiate parts of its international bailout agreement amid worse-than-expected forecasts for an economy in recession and growing popular protest over deficit-cutting austerity measures imposed by its lenders.



On Monday, euro-zone finance ministers are expected to discuss in Brussels a request by Portugal for more time to repay its loans, a concession that would help the country finance itself after the €78 billion ($99.8 billion) bailout program expires.The request, along with a similar one by Ireland, would mirror the terms Greece obtained under its latest bailout agreement.

http://online.wsj.co...=googlenews_wsj





AND

Hundreds of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets in more than 20 cities across Portugal to demand an end to government austerity measures. They are a condition of Portugal's financial bailout.

More than 200,000 people gathered outside Lisbon's Finance Ministry on Saturday to protest against austerity measures demanded by the nation's international creditors. It was the biggest show of disconnect since demonstrations in September forced Portugal to adjust its fiscal policy.

http://www.dw.de/portugal-protesters-march-against-austerity/a-16642036

 

[seasidemike]

No doubt.. the problem across all these countries is that they all want to borrow as much money as possible but for some reason they don't think that they should have to pay it back...

 

[DrLeftover]

Sounds familiar.

 

[DrLeftover]

(Reuters) - Greece remains the biggest risk for the euro zone despite a calming of its economic and political crisis and may still have to leave the common currency, a senior conservative ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/09/us-germany-greece-exit-idUSBRE9280EX20130309