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Grab Your Pitchforks!

I'm sorry Scarlet, I'm not sure any of us could truly know what Mr. Obama or any other politician 'seriously wants to do'.



Yes, there is no doubt that O is a progressive, it was his platform in the Illinois legislature and for the US Senate, although he did turn it down a step or so for the 2008 primaries, he did run solidly to the left of Hillary Clinton and remained there through the convention. In the General, he had to take a giant step toward the Center, almost a photocopy of Bill Clinton's Populist stance.



Once in DC though, as with everybody else.... it all went to hell.



Congress, is the largest obstacle to anybody getting anything done in the US, including the President, and Congress Itself. Even legislation that both parties agree on, such as the measure to ensure a steady supply of prescription drugs such as cancer medications to US Citizens, get bogged down in committee with amendments and procedural nonsense for years on end.



Look at the tea party candidates now that they've all been in for a couple of years. It would seem that in most cases, their fire has died down now that they too are looking at re-election.



The only solution to that problem would be something else that will NEVER pass Congress- Term Limits.



One of my favorite truisms involves the Jimmy Stewart character from an old movie.



Yes, Mr. Smith did go to Washington, and once there, he turned into Nixon.
 
DrLeftover said:
I'm sorry Scarlet, I'm not sure any of us could truly know what Mr. Obama or any other politician 'seriously wants to do'.

While this is true, my point was more in regards to what we can infer from the public actions of Obama. As such I was more interested in what Obama has done which could lead support to such a reading into his political leanings.



DrLeftover said:
Yes, there is no doubt that O is a progressive, it was his platform in the Illinois legislature and for the US Senate, although he did turn it down a step or so for the 2008 primaries, he did run solidly to the left of Hillary Clinton and remained there through the convention.

There are those who doubt whether or not he is a progressive. Although it is such an all embracing, umbrella term that it becomes quite difficult to accurately gauge whether or not someone is a progressive. That being said, I would not count myself among those who call Obama a progressive. While he certainly campaigned as one, I do not think this has been reflected in his presidency. A quick example which comes to mind would be his staffing choices. I would consider him more of a moderate conservative. Although as political culture in U.S.A seems to be more conservative, this might simply make him a moderate.



DrLeftover said:
The only solution to that problem would be something else that will NEVER pass Congress- Term Limits

I am quite fond of campaign finance and electoral reform myself. Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we are currently undergoing a review of our electoral system.
 
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A quick example which comes to mind would be his staffing choices. I would consider him more of a moderate conservative.



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I agree. And I do think Obama is extremely moderate if not a bit right leaning. As much as I do want a true liberal president, Obama is a far superior alternative to Romney.



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I just see so much criticism out there of Obama from all sides and I sometime want to yell at the far left (I am one among them) because if they don't stop they are going to get Romney elected. The national polling averages now favor Romney over Obama, and its largely because the left has been so critical of him on every single issue that liberals aren't going to come out for him.
 
Temerit said:
[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I agree. And I do think Obama is extremely moderate if not a bit right leaning. As much as I do want a true liberal president, Obama is a far superior alternative to Romney.


I am not even entirely sure whether I would say he is far superior to Romney. Although I would certainly agree that an Obama administration is much better than a Romney one.



Temerit said:
I just see so much criticism out there of Obama from all sides and I sometime want to yell at the far left (I am one among them) because if they don't stop they are going to get Romney elected. The national polling averages now favor Romney over Obama, and its largely because the left has been so critical of him on every single issue that liberals aren't going to come out for him.

There has certainly been a fair amount of criticism of Obama. The same has been so of his administration, and the state in general. I don't however agree with the framing that you are presenting. That the grievances, the left, have with Obama should be shelved because of a perception that those on the right are worse. If we take this approach then he no longer becomes accountable to his base and will, by necessity, continue to move further and further to the right. I deal with similar framing issues here in Aotearoa New Zealand with our Green Party.



Although as I mentioned earlier, two big issues I see in U.S.A are campaign financing and the electoral system.



DrLeftover said:
[font=times new roman,times,serif]O is a bit right leaning????

I would agree with the assessment that Obama is a bit right leaning.
 
DrLeftover said:
... ... .... .....



... ... excuse me, I need to practice

It does of course depend on context and perspective. As far as I know, there are no universally accepted means of measuring how right or left wing a person happens to be. Rather we, attempt to, reach conclusions on this based on how we weight political stances.
 
Before I take the time to produce a more lengthy response I want to clarify. Are you asserting that the Nolan chart is a universally accepted means of measuring where a person's views situate them in terms of being left or right wing?
 
Before I take the time to produce a more lengthy response, I'll say that NOTHING is Universally Accepted.



But, failing that, it does a reasonably good job of what it says it is out to do.





On another front.



Mr. Obama has blasted Mr. Romney and his work at Bain.



But... oh, yeah, there is this little detail:



Though the Obama campaign has repeatedly attacked Mitt Romney for his career at Bain Capital, President Obama still accepted $7,500 in campaign contributions from three Bain executives. His campaign press secretary, Ben LaBolt told The Politicker the president has no intention of giving the money back.



http://politicker.co...m-bain-capital/







And this is from a certified Non-Disgusting Non-Hater outlet....



Since taking office, Obama has invested billions of taxpayer dollars in private businesses, including as part of his stimulus spending bill. Many of those investments have turned out to be unmitigated disasters — leaving in their wake bankruptcies, layoffs, criminal investigations and taxpayers on the hook for billions. Consider just a few examples of Obama’s public equity failures:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...real-scandal/2012/05/24/gJQAXnXCnU_story.html
 
DrLeftover said:
I'll say that NOTHING is Universally Accepted.



But, failing that, it does a reasonably good job of what it says it is out to do.

Even if we put aside issues of ethnocentrism and other similar limitations of the Nolan Chart, we are still going to be left with issues of which questions are most relevant to the x axis, how they should be expressed, and furthermore what weighting should be given to the answers.
 
I think we are not discussing the same thing here. I have not been writing about the quiz you linked specifically. Rather the Nolan Chart which it is based upon. While I have seen several attempts to add extra dimensions in order to counteract some of the inbuilt ethnocentric biases, these attempts also have their own limitations and biases. I myself am not sure how they can be overcome. Although this is distracting from my initial point, which was, depending on how you perceive and weight policy stances, your perception of whether or not Obama is to the left or right will change. From my perspective he is a Right wing politician.
 
I would largely agree with that analysis of yours. The only exception being the Obama bots, appear to, blindly endorse his policies. such blind loyalty is revealed when they can support a policy under Obama, yet the very same policy when pursued by Bush caused them to become extremely irate. This inconsistency annoys me. The policy shouldn't change in value simply because someone from your team is now pushing for it. ._.
 
Scarlet Rose said:
The policy shouldn't change in value simply because someone from your team is now pushing for it. ._.
Indeed. That's what I hate about political loyalty.

Tunnel vision...
 
And this is Hilarious.



Hypocrisy at its finest.



Sorry it's from a disgusting hate filled (conservative) paper and so should immediately be dismissed, but it is still funny.



While their candidate is out bashing Mitt Romney's Bain Capital as a job outsourcer and greedy corporate raider, President Obama's campaign is endorsing the essence of one of Bain's biggest success stories, low-price office supply store Staples.

Created in a 1986 partnership with Bain during Romney's leadership at the private equity firm, Staples was so successful Bain received a near seven-fold return on its investment and Romney sat on the Staples board of directors for over a decade.



http://washingtonexa...article/2501246
 
How is that funny? It's a complete non-issue.



Do you go around calling anyone who is against off-shoring American jobs who has ever bought anything at staples a hypocrite?
 
If it turns out to be true: Yes.



I've never said Romney wasn't, but I do believe I have said he is a Politician, which is, almost by definition and in fact is in practice, the same thing.



And then there is another small business put out of business by Federal Law.





A tiny amendment buried in the federal transportation bill to be signed today by President Barack Obama will put operators of roll-your-own cigarette operations in Las Vegas and nationwide out of business at midnight.



Robert Weissen, with his brothers and other partners, own nine Sin City Cigarette Factory locations in Southern Nevada, including six in Las Vegas, and one in Hawaii. He said when the bill is signed their only choice is to turn off their 20 RYO Filling Station machines and lay off more than 40 employees.





http://www.lvrj.com/business/roll-your-own-cigarette-operations-to-be-snuffed-out-161539845.html
 
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