Have We Become Too Soft on Child Discipline?

[identityissues8]

Okay, so apparently in the last day, while /I was out of action, Jamie Oliver (celebrity chef, for those living under a rock) has come out and admitted that as a form of discipline he feeds his daughter Apples Slices with Chilli rubbed on them.

Oh, and the outrage this has sparked.
It's been called 'assault' and 'abuse' and 'cruelty' and all kinds of things.

For me, I think this is actually pretty mild. It's just a bit of chilli. It wouldn't even hurt, it would just be a bit annoying and/or inconvenient for a little while. Which, is kind of what a punishment is supposed to be.
Like, clearly, I do not advocate hitting or spanking a child. Though, this is a far cry from that if you ask me.

Here's the article: http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/this-is-assault-its-child-abuse/20141118-3kku1.html

I kind of agree with the first (and currently only) comment on the article.

Seriously?! How are people getting upset by this? It's not a cruel punishment, it doesn't hurt anyone only annoying for a few minutes. I used to have my mouth washed out with soap, neither harms you in any long term way. Surely people have had far worse a punishment when growing up.

I also had my mouth washed out with soap.
Though, I do think that's a bit irrelevant.

So what do you guys think?
Jamie Oliver, cruel child abuser or not?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

 

[Dee]

I don't necessarily believe this is child "abuse". However, it is different for every child. I do, however, think that parents could be educated on different effective ways to discipline their children, as well as being taught how to stand their ground and be persistent. Much of what I see is that a discipline tactic is threatened and/or given and only allowed seconds before the child has a chance to calm him or herself down. These are two opposite ends of the spectrum and there is little in between. Of course, raising a child isn't black and white, but I do feel that perhaps there are better, less harmful ways of disciplining your child. What if they had an allergy? What if it was too hot for them and they started choking? I don't necessarily think this is "cruel", but it could just end up being stupid.

 

[DrLeftover]

There's something about that in that old Book that Ellie talks about on here.

Something about... "sparing the rod, and the child ends up in state prison....."

She can tell you better than I can.

 

[Payton]

I would never advocate for using physical violence against a child, or anyone (barring cases of self defense). I think that the people who do are imbeciles to be completely blunt. You are conditioning a child to normalize physical abuse and doing more psychological harm than good; a parent is a child's first role model and love. Consider the message that sends to a child who cannot rationally process the events.

The disciplinary model of "you do something bad so I hit you" enforces fear, and it is comparable to "an eye for an eye," figuratively speaking. In my opinion it's counterproductive if you want to raise a happy, healthy child, or at least inefficient. The emotional response you get from hitting someone is either anger or sadness. It does not provoke trust or understanding. Consider this from the perspective of an undeveloped child.

I think a better approach is to restrict the privileges you allow your child as punishment, and to explain why their privileges are being taken away. And of course, remaining steadfast in your discipline is important. Most of all one must be empathetic to his/her child and be able to communicate effectively with them.

Before I get the eye rolls from people who think that hitting is not abuse, here's the definition of abuse:

abuse (verb): treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence.

So yes, any act of physical aggression qualifies as abuse. Whether or not you're unqualified to be a parent is not the question here. However if your best method of discipline is hitting, then maybe we should be asking that.

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Care to back up these claims, or at least state why you think that the younger generation is that way? I feel like that stereotype is the result of incompetent parents. I knew plenty of people in my age demographic who fit the stereotype, whose parents still hit them. What gives?

When it has come to the point that a smack on the ass is considered abusive, and the children even threaten to call child protective services on their parents because they know they can get them in trouble, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.  Whiny, lazy and self important is exactly what the next generation is, and it's likely the generation that follows will be even worse.

How, why?

 

[+paradox]

just because one person doesn't think chili is hot or spicy doesn't mean another might think it is for them...

instead of making your child eat something nasty or hot/spicy, or what-have-you, why not ground the child or take away something that child likes or uses, like for an example, a cell phone or video games?

 

[Nebulous]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

 

[Dee]

I would never advocate for using physical violence against a child, or anyone (barring cases of self defense). I think that the people who do are imbeciles to be completely blunt. You are conditioning a child to normalize physical abuse and doing more psychological harm than good; a parent is a child's first role model and love. Consider the message that sends to a child who cannot rationally process the events.

The disciplinary model of "you do something bad so I hit you" enforces fear, and it is comparable to "an eye for an eye," figuratively speaking. In my opinion it's counterproductive if you want to raise a happy, healthy child, or at least inefficient. The emotional response you get from hitting someone is either anger or sadness. It does not provoke trust or understanding. Consider this from the perspective of an undeveloped child.

I think a better approach is to restrict the privileges you allow your child as punishment, and to explain why their privileges are being taken away. And of course, remaining steadfast in your discipline is important. Most of all one must be empathetic to his/her child and be able to communicate effectively with them.

Before I get the eye rolls from people who think that hitting is not abuse, here's the definition of abuse:

abuse (verb): treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence.

So yes, any act of physical aggression qualifies as abuse. Whether or not you're unqualified to be a parent is not the question here. However if your best method of discipline is hitting, then maybe we should be asking that.

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Care to back up these claims, or at least state why you think that the younger generation is that way? I feel like that stereotype is the result of incompetent parents. I knew plenty of people in my age demographic who fit the stereotype, whose parents still hit them. What gives?

When it has come to the point that a smack on the ass is considered abusive, and the children even threaten to call child protective services on their parents because they know they can get them in trouble, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.  Whiny, lazy and self important is exactly what the next generation is, and it's likely the generation that follows will be even worse.

How, why?

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Why is it okay to strike your child to keep them from doing something you don't want to do? It's been studied that spanking your child as a form of discipline can and does instill fear, and there are other ways that have been proven to work far more successfully than striking a child; however, it does require patience and unwavering on the adult's part. Cause isn't that supposed to be the dynamics in this relationship? The adult is supposed to be smarter and more wise than the small child. The small child is relatively new to the world and will most likely misbehave either because they don't comprehend the consequences or because they're testing their limits. To sink down so low to the point where someone would strike a child is sad to me, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Payton]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Why is it okay to strike your child to keep them from doing something you don't want to do?  It's been studied that spanking your child as a form of discipline can and does instill fear, and there are other ways that have been proven to work far more successfully than striking a child; however, it does require patience and unwavering on the adult's part.  Cause isn't that supposed to be the dynamics in this relationship?  The adult is supposed to be smarter and more wise than the small child.  The small child is relatively new to the world and will most likely misbehave either because they don't comprehend the consequences or because they're testing their limits.  To sink down so low to the point where someone would strike a child is sad to me, but that's just my opinion.

I agree, and I've always felt like it was a difference of emotional maturity that separated those who use humane forms of discipline versus animalistic, anger centric forms.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

They do because times change but in this case statistics back it up this time. I posted them here somewhere before will see if I have the patience to scroll down all the posts which was either here, political or in the news.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I would never advocate for using physical violence against a child, or anyone (barring cases of self defense). I think that the people who do are imbeciles to be completely blunt. You are conditioning a child to normalize physical abuse and doing more psychological harm than good; a parent is a child's first role model and love. Consider the message that sends to a child who cannot rationally process the events.

The disciplinary model of "you do something bad so I hit you" enforces fear, and it is comparable to "an eye for an eye," figuratively speaking. In my opinion it's counterproductive if you want to raise a happy, healthy child, or at least inefficient. The emotional response you get from hitting someone is either anger or sadness. It does not provoke trust or understanding. Consider this from the perspective of an undeveloped child.

I think a better approach is to restrict the privileges you allow your child as punishment, and to explain why their privileges are being taken away. And of course, remaining steadfast in your discipline is important. Most of all one must be empathetic to his/her child and be able to communicate effectively with them.

Before I get the eye rolls from people who think that hitting is not abuse, here's the definition of abuse:

abuse (verb): treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence.

So yes, any act of physical aggression qualifies as abuse. Whether or not you're unqualified to be a parent is not the question here. However if your best method of discipline is hitting, then maybe we should be asking that.

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Care to back up these claims, or at least state why you think that the younger generation is that way? I feel like that stereotype is the result of incompetent parents. I knew plenty of people in my age demographic who fit the stereotype, whose parents still hit them. What gives?

When it has come to the point that a smack on the ass is considered abusive, and the children even threaten to call child protective services on their parents because they know they can get them in trouble, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.  Whiny, lazy and self important is exactly what the next generation is, and it's likely the generation that follows will be even worse.

How, why?

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  Why is it okay to strike your child to keep them from doing something you don't want to do?  It's been studied that spanking your child as a form of discipline can and does instill fear, and there are other ways that have been proven to work far more successfully than striking a child; however, it does require patience and unwavering on the adult's part.  Cause isn't that supposed to be the dynamics in this relationship?  The adult is supposed to be smarter and more wise than the small child.  The small child is relatively new to the world and will most likely misbehave either because they don't comprehend the consequences or because they're testing their limits.  To sink down so low to the point where someone would strike a child is sad to me, but that's just my opinion.

You want your child to fear you when they have done something wrong.

I was never in trouble with the law as a kid but I was hard core stubborn kid. I once spent 3 months confined to my room eating breakfast and dinner in there and after school with everything removed from my bedroom except my homework a bed and a few god awful boring books my dad picked I could read. The weekends I got dragged out to my dads empty land in the woods and dug holes 4 feet wide by 4 feet deep all day every weekend for future oak trees to be planted because of something I did and did again. The only thing that worked on me was physical to get me to change my ways. And not the kind of physical where I was hurt. But the kind being where I thought I was a bad ass at the time and was more embarrassing then I could stand. And that was a slap to the face from my dad who I was always in competition with proving I could be stronger and faster. I would do anything to avoid that kind of embarrassment. I would have rather had my dad say lets go brawl outside and do full bare knuckles and got my ass kicked then a slap to the face. It was very rare he did it but when it was done it got me back on the right path of getting my act together.

There was only one time he used a fist against me and that is when I was 17 and I was ten years into Taekwondo and pretty serious into competition tournaments. And just months from leaving home at 17 like the a dumb teenager before I was ready. This day was building up since I had turned 17 thinking I am close enough to 18 to do what I want. In short I took my motorcycle over a hundred miles to Tampa when I was supposed to be doing something else. And when I got home and tried to sneak through the door it swung open hands grabbed my shirt swung me around and smashed me into a wall. Which instinctively made my training come in and force his arms down and off me while I then raised my arms into a fist motion. He then said in the pure anger he was in you want a piece of me take a shot! Knowing full well I was in the wrong declined and got a punch to the gut. I bent over to the ground not expecting it. When I looked up he was gone and that day was never spoken again.

There is no trauma or suffering in my life because of it. Out of control kids sometimes need physical discipline to get them in line before there lives go down the tubes. This attitude of all love and gentle means of raising a kid has created the very high percentage of crappy kids we have now. And the millenials with the kinds of self mental disorders we have never seen before.

 

[+paradox]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

They do because times change but in this case statistics back it up this time. I posted them here somewhere before will see if I have the patience to scroll down all the posts which was either here, political or in the news.

the "stats" to back it up this time?

i'll wait forever until you find such a thing...

and it's convenient that liberty sympathize with parents that beat and abuse their children in the name of "discipline" because after-all liberty sympathize with the zionist jew terrorists...

non violent and non abusive discipline is much more effective than violent and abusive discipline, and being violent and abusive to your child is illegal for a reason, may i add...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

They do because times change but in this case statistics back it up this time. I posted them here somewhere before will see if I have the patience to scroll down all the posts which was either here, political or in the news.

the "stats" to back it up this time?

i'll wait forever until you find such a thing...

and it's convenient that liberty sympathize with parents that beat and abuse their children in the name of "discipline" because after-all liberty sympathize with the zionist jew terrorists...

Misrepresenting once again what people say I see.

 

[+paradox]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

They do because times change but in this case statistics back it up this time. I posted them here somewhere before will see if I have the patience to scroll down all the posts which was either here, political or in the news.

the "stats" to back it up this time?

i'll wait forever until you find such a thing...

and it's convenient that liberty sympathize with parents that beat and abuse their children in the name of "discipline" because after-all liberty sympathize with the zionist jew terrorists...

Misrepresenting once again what people say I see.

how?

non violent and non abusive discipline is much more effective than violent and abusive discipline, and being violent and abusive to your child is illegal for a reason, may i add...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Doesn't every generation say that about the next generation?

They do because times change but in this case statistics back it up this time. I posted them here somewhere before will see if I have the patience to scroll down all the posts which was either here, political or in the news.

the "stats" to back it up this time?

i'll wait forever until you find such a thing...

and it's convenient that liberty sympathize with parents that beat and abuse their children in the name of "discipline" because after-all liberty sympathize with the zionist jew terrorists...

Misrepresenting once again what people say I see.

how?

non violent and non abusive discipline is much more effective than violent and abusive discipline, and being violent and abusive to your child is illegal for a reason, may i add...

Big difference between beating and limited physical discipline. But you keep on misrepresenting people

 

[+paradox]

i'm pretty sure it's considered child abuse and a crime if a parent punches their kid in the stomach, but what ever you say...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I would never advocate for using physical violence against a child, or anyone (barring cases of self defense). I think that the people who do are imbeciles to be completely blunt. You are conditioning a child to normalize physical abuse and doing more psychological harm than good; a parent is a child's first role model and love. Consider the message that sends to a child who cannot rationally process the events.

The disciplinary model of "you do something bad so I hit you" enforces fear, and it is comparable to "an eye for an eye," figuratively speaking. In my opinion it's counterproductive if you want to raise a happy, healthy child, or at least inefficient. The emotional response you get from hitting someone is either anger or sadness. It does not provoke trust or understanding. Consider this from the perspective of an undeveloped child.

I think a better approach is to restrict the privileges you allow your child as punishment, and to explain why their privileges are being taken away. And of course, remaining steadfast in your discipline is important. Most of all one must be empathetic to his/her child and be able to communicate effectively with them.

Before I get the eye rolls from people who think that hitting is not abuse, here's the definition of abuse:

abuse (verb): treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence.

So yes, any act of physical aggression qualifies as abuse. Whether or not you're unqualified to be a parent is not the question here. However if your best method of discipline is hitting, then maybe we should be asking that.

We have the highest number of the whiniest, laziest and most self entitled and self important kids this country has ever seen. Yes we are way to soft on them.

Care to back up these claims, or at least state why you think that the younger generation is that way? I feel like that stereotype is the result of incompetent parents. I knew plenty of people in my age demographic who fit the stereotype, whose parents still hit them. What gives?

When it has come to the point that a smack on the ass is considered abusive, and the children even threaten to call child protective services on their parents because they know they can get them in trouble, there is something seriously wrong with this picture.  Whiny, lazy and self important is exactly what the next generation is, and it's likely the generation that follows will be even worse.

How, why?

Okay while in the mall sitting here with some coffee while the wife does Christmas shopping found this one from Doc. Still looking for mine.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/recruits-ineligibility-tests-the-military-1403909945?mod=WSJ_hppMIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

i'm pretty sure it's considered child abuse and a crime if a parent punches their kid in the stomach, but what ever you say...

Once again misrepresenting. I never suggested punching your kid but a smack on the butt for a out of control kid is fine. But I was beyond out of control and stubborn at the time. I myself would not smack my kid on the face but every child is different.

 

[+paradox]

i'm pretty sure it's considered child abuse and a crime if a parent punches their kid in the stomach, but what ever you say...

Once again misrepresenting. I never suggested punching your kid but a smack on the butt for a out of control kid is fine. But I was beyond out of control and stubborn at the time.  I myself would not smack my kid on the face but every child is different.

not misrepresenting squat...

you said your father punched you in your stomach when you were a minor, and you agreed to that form of discipline... and that's what we were clearly talking about, nothing more and nothing less...

then i told you the facts, that punching your kid in the stomach is not a good way to discipline your child and in america, against the law...

but yeah, i'm misrepresenting what you say...

are you actually reading what you say liberty?

 

[Sinon]

I was smacked as a kid, and I think it worked just fine. It was a deterrent. I wouldn't do bad things because if I did bad things, I'd get hurt. So I didn't do bad things because I didn't like getting hurt. Run across the road without looking? I got spanked. I never did it again.