History

[DrLeftover]

Funny how a good song, well done, sheds light on a debate.







Think about it.

 

[Temerit]

This makes a good point.

I don't see what point this makes.



The last war fought to defend our freedom was WWII.



Korea/Vietnam/Dstorm/Afghanistan/Pakistan/Iraq did nothing to secure freedom for Americans. Only Korea and Desert Storm secured a better life for people of another nation.



I honor our veterans.



I despise war and those who jump into it so easily.

 

[DrLeftover]

But remember. It is only the military and the Republicans that got us into Iraq.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton

10 October 2002

(available the US Senate web site)

 

[DrLeftover]

How does a country disarm if that country doesn't have what they are claim to have?

She's the smartest woman in the world.... ask her.

 

[Temerit]

Even with wars that you disagree with, you can't blame the individuals that are in the military that are fighting in those wars

Yeah, and I'm not blaming them.



---



And Dr. Leftover, you do realize that it was a Republican administration that proposed the resolution and people like Cheney outright lied to some senators concerning the intelligence that was availible on Iraq.



There is Mrs. Hillary on one side and on the other is Robert Byrd who filibustered the resolution issuing a powerful warning that to him, this seemed painfully reminiscent of Vietnam.



And Mr. Obama was also asked about his stance on the war in interviews and voiced his opposition to it.



The truth is that the Bush family and Dick Cheney had a vested monetary interest in going to war in Iraq. Bush also could have been motivated by the fact that Saddam Hussein attempted to assassinate his father. Bush and Cheney (and their administration) are the true evil here. So many American lives thrown away for naught. We are neither more secure nor are the Iraqi people more free because of this war.

 

[Temerit]

She would have told you that she supported the resolution because of the widespread misinformation that was cited as truth back then by the administration.

 

[Temerit]

That is a great question.



They said that Saddam had WMD's. He didn't.



Cheney even told some senators that Iraq was nuclear..

 

[Temerit]

Bush and Cheney should have been impeached.



What they did was far worse than anything Nixon ever did.

 

[DrLeftover]

Nice to have a totally open and honest administration that seeks public opinion and listens to the People before it enacts policy like the candidate promised in the campaign isn't it?

 

[Temerit]

You're a hater.

 

[Temerit]

I don't believe any president could ever satisfy you.

 

[DrLeftover]

Only a seriously liberal one can satisfy others.



And no, I don't think it is the President's job to make everybody happy. Nor do I think they should try.



But they should also observe the Constitutional bounds of the office.

 

[Temerit]

Obama has.

 

[DrLeftover]

I'm sorry, I looked, I don't see... bail out companies that are too big to fail in there....





http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.htmlhttp://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution.html

 

[Temerit]

Bush started it.

 

[DrLeftover]

Bush started it.

So it had to be a really stupid idea. Right?



And, either way, Congress (curse, spit) had to approve it, and at the time, Mr Obama was in the Senate and voted for it.

 

[Temerit]

Yeah, because he's reasonable. Keynesian economics sir.



Oh hey, that brings us back to the topic! We learned from the mistake of the Japanese.

 

[Temerit]

I totally agree with you Abiel, but reprimanding and breaking up these firms needed to be done after bailing them out. We didn't lose money off of the bailouts, but that certainly shouldn't be the government's place. However, it is still worth it since we avoided the assured catastrophe that would have unfolded had we done nothing. But these banks shouldn't be able to act like investment firms, they should have to choose to either be a bank, or a hedge fund. And it isn't a secure financial situation to have these companies that are big enough to crash our entire system if they mess up.



I think the bonuses on wall street while America suffers is ludicrous.

 

[DrLeftover]

But of course it is totally all right for Congress to get an automatic raise every two years while America suffers.

With the economy in turmoil, members of Congress are particularly sensitive to the pitfalls of publicly backing automatic pay raises for themselves. At the same time, they know that if they ban the automatic raises, they will be forced, in the future, to hold a vote every time they want their salaries to go up. And there is never a good time for headlines about relatively rich public officials deciding to give themselves more taxpayer money.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-4863877-503544.html

 

[Temerit]

I'm much less concerned about pay raises in congress compared to the pay increases that CEO's and Executives in Businesses have gotten over the past 30 years. That is much more ridiculous.