israel is only defending itself

[beowulf]

you people can continue to show me your asses.

by all means...........heres some young ladies from the Israeli Defence Force to do it for me

 

[TommyTooter]

you people can continue to show me your asses.

by all means...........heres some young ladies from the Israeli Defence Force to do it for me

you continue to demonstrate that you are an ignorant illiterate infantile imbecile with that. @Nebulous and @jazzy may i take this concerted effort by this dipshit and others to derail the discussion here as a relaxing of your rules against such behavior and my cue to start going off on these self-consumed sycophantic simpletons?

 

[Jazzy]

you people can continue to show me your asses.

by all means...........heres some young ladies from the Israeli Defence Force to do it for me

you continue to demonstrate that you are an ignorant illiterate infantile imbecile with that. @Nebulous and @jazzy may i take this concerted effort by this dipshit and others to derail the discussion here as a relaxing of your rules against such behavior and my cue to start going off on these self-consumed sycophantic simpletons?

You asked for it and he delivered. As far as your cue to start going off on these self-consumed sycophantic simpletons, (as you put it) that's all you've been doing in this thread. This thread is not a debate thread. This thread is one person (you) on a mission to spread your own agenda. If you can't take the heat then I suggest you 'put out the fire' and open your mind to other peoples opinions.

 

[TommyTooter]

i'm going to call bullshit on that. true to form, these people have not once attempted to refute my assertions, but have called me all sorts of names for challenging the conventional conservative line on israel.

the assertion is that to call israel a democracy or jewish state is preposterous because it's a plutocratic oligarchy controlled by a rothschild-owned bank (bank leumi) that is in complete violation of hebrew law. this is not refuted by calling me an idiot, conspiracy theorist or anti-semite.
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-to-make-case-for-israel-and-win.html
July 18, 2008
How to make the case for Israel and win

To the benefit of the many not-very-bright zionist wannabe apologists who read this blog assiduously, I decided to offer a clear and simple method of arguing the case for Israel. This clear and simple method has been distilled from a life spent listening to and reading Zionist propaganda. It is easy to follow and results are guaranteed or your money back.

So don't hesitate! Take advantage NOW of this revolutionary rhetorical system that will make YOU a great apologist for Israel in less time than it takes to shoot a Palestinian toddler in the eye.

Ready? 1..2..3..GO!


You need to understand just one principle:

The case for Israel is made of four propositions that should always be presented in the correct escalating order.

We rock
They suck
You suck
Everything sucks

That's it. Now you know everything that it took me a lifetime to learn. The rest is details; filling in the dotted lines.

You begin by saying how great Israel is. Israel want peace; Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East; the desert blooms; kibutz; Israelis invented antibiotics, the wheel, the E minor scale; thanks to the occupation Palestinians no longer live in caves; Israel liberates Arab women; Israel has the most moral army in the world, etc.

This will win over 50% of your listeners immediately. Don't worry about the factual content. This is about brand identity, not writing a PhD. Do you really think BP is 'beyond petroleum'?

Then you go into the second point: They suck. Here you talk about the legal system of Saudi Arabia, gay rights in Iran, slave trade in the Sudan, Mohammad Atta, the burqa, Palestinians dancing after 9/11, Arafat's facial hair, etc.

There is only one additional principle you need to understand here. It will separate you from the amateurs. You need to know your audience. If you've got a crowd already disposed to racist logic, go for it with everything you have. But if you get a liberal crowd, you need to sugar coat the racism a bit. Focus on women rights, human rights, religious tolerance, "clash of civilizations", terrorism, they teach their children to hate, etc. Deep down your audience WANTS to enjoy racism and feel superior. They just need the proper encouragement so they can keep their sophisticated self-image. Give them what they crave and they'll adore you! But be careful not to 'mix n match,' because it will cost you credibility.

When you're done, there will always be dead-enders insisting that abuse of gays in Iran does not justify ethnic cleansing in Palestine. Take a deep breath, and pull the doomsday weapon: You suck!

You're a Jew-hater, Arab-lover, anti-Semite, you're a pinko, a commie, a dreamer, a naive, a self-hater, you have issues, your mother worked for the Nazis, Prince Bandar buys you cookies, you forgot you were responsible for the holocaust, etc. The more the merrier. By the time you end this barrage, only a handful would be left standing. For mopping them up, you use the ultimate postmodern wisdom: Everything sucks.

War, genocide, racism, oppression are everywhere. From the Roma in Italy to the Native-Americans in the U.S., the weak are victimized. Why pick on Israel? It's the way of the world. Look! Right is only in question between equals in power; the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. Ethics, schmethics. Life is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Eat, drink! Carpe diem! The Palestinians would throw us into the sea if they could. Ha ha!

Trust me, that's as far as words can go. If you followed this method faithfully, you've done your work. You should leave the few who are still unconvinced to the forces of order.

Congratulations!
You are now ready to
apologize for Israel like a pro.


Posted by Gabriel @ 1:44 pm 43 Comments
Labels:gabriel ash

 

[Jazzy]

So, you couldn't make your own case for Israel and win so you decided to let Gabriel do it for you. Not only that, the source you use is an Anti-Zionist blog which the author is spewing his own agenda.

 

[beowulf]

just looked at that pic again..............the blond one is a cutie

 

[TommyTooter]

So, you couldn't make your own case for Israel and win so you decided to let Gabriel do it for you. Not only that, the source you use is an Anti-Zionist blog which the author is spewing his own agenda.

how about i have a life beyond this forum and i haven't been here since my last post?

you want some scripture to go with that? how about some contemporary rabbinic knowledge? the stateof israel is a fraud, plain and simple. you cannot justify it in the context of hebrew law. prior to the murder of the six million, most jews opposed it and the ones who supported it, insisted on equal rights for the gentiles and peaceful coexistence for the neighbors. first, shema demands that we love everything. zionists hate arabs and are therefore in violation of the prime directive. further the seven noahide laws and the ten commandments do not have any provisions suspending them inthe name of the state and deuteronomy 8 and 11 specifically forbid what was done and continues to be done. finally the three oaths demand that the nation of israel lives under gentile rule until god himself establishes the new kingdom.

the three oaths

The first oath is, "shelo yaalu bachoma," that the Jews should not forcibly, "break through the wall," and enter Eretz Yisrael. The second is that the Jews should not rebel against the nations. The third is that the nations of the world should not oppress Yisrael too much over the course of the exile. According to R. Zera, there are three additional oaths which relate to the ultimate redemption. The Gemara concludes with the threat that if Israel violates these oaths, their flesh will be made free like wild animals in the field, i.e., Hashem would bring upon them great suffering and physical destruction.


this is a book review.

GOLIATH: LIFE AND LOATHING IN GREATER ISRAEL
By Max Blumenthal,
Nation Books, 496 Pages, $27.99
an eye-opening report from an israel most americans never see

and lastly, a recent talk by alison weir, author of 'if americans only knew'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_-UwcVP_k2Y

 

[beowulf]

ignorant illiterate infantile imbecile

lol, sticks and stones and all that

as for ignorant.....nope, i can think for myself and see through the bullshit and hate you peddle
infantile........think im more adult than you
imbecile,...thats a laugh...i dont blindly believe in what i read on the internet like you do, i dont take i all the stupid conspiracy theories like you do, only reason you spout it is to create tension and cause trouble
as for illiterate..........at least i dont copy and paste what other people have written,........ but then ive always believed a picture is worth a thousand words

 

[TommyTooter]

ignorant illiterate infantile imbecile

lol, sticks and stones and all that

as for ignorant.....nope, i can think for myself and see through the bullshit and hate you peddle
infantile........think im more adult than you
imbecile,...thats a laugh...i dont blindly believe in what i read on the internet like you do, i dont take i all the stupid conspiracy theories like you do, only reason you spout it is to create tension and cause trouble
as for illiterate..........at least i dont copy and paste what other people have written,........ but then ive always believed a picture is worth a thousand words

more irrational nonsense.


i'm not peddling hate. i'm pointing out some facts that have been obfuscated by the zionists and trying to do my part as a faithful hebrew israelite to head off a disaster that is certain to eventually result from their fraud.

you have not responded to my basic challenge: justify calling israel a jewish state in the context of hebrew law. just called me a bunch of names and made other diversionary postings.

 

[Jazzy]

justify calling israel a jewish state

Is Israel A Jewish State?

In advance of the upcoming diplomatic conference in Annapolis, Israel Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced the other day that he expects the Palestinian Authority to finally acknowledge Israel's existence as a Jewish state. A newly arrived visitor from Mars might wonder why this should even be an issue -- after all, Israel *is* a Jewish state. If the more than 55 countries that make up the Organization of the Islamic Conference are entitled to recognition as Muslim states, and if the 22 members of the Arab League are universally accepted as Arab states, why should anyone balk at acknowledging Israel as the world's lone Jewish state?

In no region of the world do countries so routinely link their national character to a specific religion as in the Muslim Middle East. The flag of Saudi Arabia features the shahada -- the Islamic declaration of faith -- in white Arabic script on a green background; on the Iranian flag, the Islamic phrase "Allahu Akbar" ("God is great") appears 22 times. And then there is Erekat's own Palestinian Authority, whose Basic Law provides in Article 4 that "Islam is the official religion in Palestine" and that "the principles of Islamic sharia shall be the main source of legislation."

So why won't the leaders of the Palestinian Authority acknowledge the obvious -- that Israel is the Jewish state? The Jewish connection to Palestine is a matter not just of rich historical fact, but of international law. When the League of Nations entrusted Britain with the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, it expressly recognized "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine" and the rightfulness of "reconstituting their national home in that country." By that point, Britain had already transferred 80 percent of historic Palestine to Arab rule -- today's Muslim kingdom of Jordan. All that remained for a Jewish state was the residual 20 percent (and even that was later subdivided). But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was "in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance," as Winston Churchill underscored at the time.

So, Tommy: Eighty-five years later, that small sliver of the Middle East is home to nearly half the world's Jews. If that isn't a Jewish state, what is?

 

[beowulf]

hang on a minute..............you are a 'faithful hebrew isrealite' and yet you are trying to convince us that isreal should NOT exist?......and you seem to be pro palistinian?.....and you come across as a jew hater??????

dude...you got serious problems!

 

[TommyTooter]

hang on a minute..............you are a 'faithful hebrew isrealite' and yet you are trying to convince us that isreal should NOT exist?......and you seem to be pro palistinian?.....and you come across as a jew hater??????

dude...you got serious problems!

i am NOT a dude and you are the one with some very serious reading comprehension and cognitive reasoning skills. you definitely have yet to deliver a rational argument. you might bone up on your logic here: your logical fallacy is . . . the ad hominem fallacy

i'm not 'pro-palestinian' so much as anti-imperialist. european jews have colonized palestine and completely destabilized the ethnic balance that existed prior to the balfour declaration. since 1948, jewish communities that had once been intermingled with moslem and christian communities have been decimated from gibraltar to islamabad in reaction to the zionist oppression in palestine. alison weir goes into some detail near the end of her talk.

the establishment of the state of israel violates the core of hebrew law. zionism is not judaism. it is a supremacist nationalist political idealogy that is anathema to the hebrew faith. what part of that argument are you failing to comprehend?

it is nearly impossible, if you are not a tool of the perpetual war machine, to look at present day israel and not see the parallels between it and nazi germany. isaac asimov took one look at it, completely rejecting the notion of a jewish nationalism and lamented how the oppressed had so quickly become the oppressors.

‘One nation, one state, one leader’ — frightening slogan at Tel Aviv protest
Philip Weiss on August 10, 2014 3

Ofer Neiman sent this along, from Facebook.

fascistic slogan at rally
fascistic slogan at rally, “one nation, one state, one leader”

From that facebook page:

Ultra-Zionists counter-protesting today against Rabin Square antiwar demo, sign reads: “one nation, one state, one leader”. Yes, the Reich is back in white and blue.

Neiman passes on this comment from a friend:

“sadly It’s not a hoax. some people we know talk to the people holding this sign. they were serious and didn’t know the slogan history.”

Who needs to know the history, we’ve all absorbed it history unconsciously. Which is not to say that the Holocaust is being reenacted by Israel, but that certain Nazi ideas about power have been absorbed. It’s what has been imprinted. The recovery movement informs us that a victim of abuse will reenact the role of the abuser when he has the hammer. I was with a Jewish friend once at night at the monstrous hulking gray steel and concrete apparatus of Qalandiya checkpoint, dark against a dark sky, and he said, This is as bad as Auschwitz. He was not saying, this is as bad as an extermination camp, he was observing the essential feeling of the apartheid system that has been established.


jimmy carter calls on EU, US to recognize hamas

 

[DrLeftover]

Tooter has admitted that very few, if any, modern nations are "legitimate" and deserve to exist. Including everything in the Americas, the vast majority of Europe, the entire Middle East, and so on.

There is no point in continuing this discussion.

 

[TommyTooter]

Tooter has admitted that very few, if any, modern nations are "legitimate" and deserve to exist. Including everything in the Americas, the vast majority of Europe, the entire Middle East, and so on.

There is no point in continuing this discussion.

absolutely, if all you people have is irrational broadsides at me.

nobody has addressed any of the premises, just my fitness to present them.

 

[Jazzy]

justify calling israel a jewish state

Is Israel A Jewish State?

In advance of the upcoming diplomatic conference in Annapolis, Israel Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced the other day that he expects the Palestinian Authority to finally acknowledge Israel's existence as a Jewish state. A newly arrived visitor from Mars might wonder why this should even be an issue -- after all, Israel *is* a Jewish state. If the more than 55 countries that make up the Organization of the Islamic Conference are entitled to recognition as Muslim states, and if the 22 members of the Arab League are universally accepted as Arab states, why should anyone balk at acknowledging Israel as the world's lone Jewish state?

In no region of the world do countries so routinely link their national character to a specific religion as in the Muslim Middle East. The flag of Saudi Arabia features the shahada -- the Islamic declaration of faith -- in white Arabic script on a green background; on the Iranian flag, the Islamic phrase "Allahu Akbar" ("God is great") appears 22 times. And then there is Erekat's own Palestinian Authority, whose Basic Law provides in Article 4 that "Islam is the official religion in Palestine" and that "the principles of Islamic sharia shall be the main source of legislation."

So why won't the leaders of the Palestinian Authority acknowledge the obvious -- that Israel is the Jewish state? The Jewish connection to Palestine is a matter not just of rich historical fact, but of international law. When the League of Nations entrusted Britain with the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, it expressly recognized "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine" and the rightfulness of "reconstituting their national home in that country." By that point, Britain had already transferred 80 percent of historic Palestine to Arab rule -- today's Muslim kingdom of Jordan. All that remained for a Jewish state was the residual 20 percent (and even that was later subdivided). But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was "in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance," as Winston Churchill underscored at the time.

So, Tommy: Eighty-five years later, that small sliver of the Middle East is home to nearly half the world's Jews. If that isn't a Jewish state, what is?

Still waiting for an answer!

 

[TommyTooter]

justify calling israel a jewish state

Is Israel A Jewish State?

In advance of the upcoming diplomatic conference in Annapolis, Israel Prime Minister Ehud Olmert announced the other day that he expects the Palestinian Authority to finally acknowledge Israel's existence as a Jewish state. A newly arrived visitor from Mars might wonder why this should even be an issue -- after all, Israel *is* a Jewish state. If the more than 55 countries that make up the Organization of the Islamic Conference are entitled to recognition as Muslim states, and if the 22 members of the Arab League are universally accepted as Arab states, why should anyone balk at acknowledging Israel as the world's lone Jewish state?

In no region of the world do countries so routinely link their national character to a specific religion as in the Muslim Middle East. The flag of Saudi Arabia features the shahada -- the Islamic declaration of faith -- in white Arabic script on a green background; on the Iranian flag, the Islamic phrase "Allahu Akbar" ("God is great") appears 22 times. And then there is Erekat's own Palestinian Authority, whose Basic Law provides in Article 4 that "Islam is the official religion in Palestine" and that "the principles of Islamic sharia shall be the main source of legislation."

So why won't the leaders of the Palestinian Authority acknowledge the obvious -- that Israel is the Jewish state? The Jewish connection to Palestine is a matter not just of rich historical fact, but of international law. When the League of Nations entrusted Britain with the Mandate for Palestine in 1922, it expressly recognized "the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine" and the rightfulness of "reconstituting their national home in that country." By that point, Britain had already transferred 80 percent of historic Palestine to Arab rule -- today's Muslim kingdom of Jordan. All that remained for a Jewish state was the residual 20 percent (and even that was later subdivided). But there, at least, it was clear that the Jewish community was "in Palestine as of right and not on sufferance," as Winston Churchill underscored at the time.

So, Tommy: Eighty-five years later, that small sliver of the Middle East is home to nearly half the world's Jews. If that isn't a Jewish state, what is?

Still waiting for an answer!

it is not a jewish state if the people in it only call themselves jews and don't uphold hebrew law. as i very clearly stated numerous times, the formation of a jewish state is forbidden by the law and the actions taken by that state today are forbidden by the law.

one of the reasons it is home to so many jews is that since the advent of zionism, the jews have been expelled from nearly everywhere else in the region.


http://pulsemedia.org/2009/08/26/an-abnormal-nationalism/

Zionism is best described as an abnormal nationalism. This singular fact has engendered a history of deepening conflicts between Israel – leading an alliance of Western states – and the Islamicate more generally.

Jewish ‘nationalism’ was abnormal for two reasons. It was homeless: it did not possess a homeland. The Jews of Europe were not a majority in, or even exercised control over, any territory that could become the basis of a Jewish state. We do not know of another nationalist movement in recent memory that started with such a land deficit – that is, without a homeland.

Arguably, Jewish nationalism was without a nation too. The Jews were a religious aggregate, consisting of communities, scattered across many regions and countries, some only tenuously connected to others, but who shared the religious traditions derived from, or an identity connected to, Judaism. Over the centuries, Jews had been taught that a divinely appointed Messiah would restore them to Zion; but such a Messiah never appeared; or when he did, his failure to deliver ‘proved’ that he was false. Indeed, while the Jews prayed for the appearance of the Messiah, they had no notion about when this might happen. In addition, since the nineteenth century, Reform Jews have interpreted their chosenness metaphorically. Max Nordau complained bitterly that for the Reform Jew, “the word Zion had just as little meaning as the word dispersion…He denies that there is a Jewish people and that he is a member of it.”

Since Zionism was a nationalism without a homeland or a nation, its protagonists would have to create both. To compensate for the first deficit, the Zionists would have to acquire a homeland: they would have to expropriate territory that belonged to another people. In other words, a homeless nationalism, of necessity, is a charter for conquest and – if it is exclusionary – for ethnic cleansing. At the same time, the Zionists would have to start creating a Jewish nation out of the heterogeneous Jewish colons they would assemble in their newly minted homeland. At the least, they would have to create a nucleus of Jews who were willing to settle in Palestine and committed to creating the infrastructure of a Jewish society and state in Palestine. For many years, this nucleus would be small, since, Jews, overwhelmingly, preferred assimilation and revolution in Europe to colonizing Palestine.

 

[Jazzy]

Perhaps you need to define exactly what hebrew law they are not upholding.

 

[DrLeftover]

I believe the problem would be is that there are several versions of "Hebrew Law".

The one my family observed when they had a funeral for my grandfather when he converted to Christianity is different than that observed in the Holy Land, which is different than that observed by the Jews who still live in Poland and Russia, which is different yet again from African Jewry, even if the differences are only stylistic or minor in nature, they are different, and to somebody with a stiff neck, as Jews are known to have, it would be enough to declare them as "violating the law".

 

[TommyTooter]

I believe the problem would be is that there are several versions of "Hebrew Law".

The one my family observed when they had a funeral for my grandfather when he converted to Christianity is different than that observed in the Holy Land, which is different than that observed by the Jews who still live in Poland and Russia, which is different yet again from African Jewry, even if the differences are only stylistic or minor in nature, they are different, and to somebody with a stiff neck, as Jews are known to have, it would be enough to declare them as "violating the law".

there are interpretations of the three oaths that say they only apply to the lost tribes and not judah, but when it's all said and done, lying, stealing and killing are forbidden and that's what zionism has been about.

 

[TommyTooter]

Perhaps you need to define exactly what hebrew law they are not upholding.

again?

So, you couldn't make your own case for Israel and win so you decided to let Gabriel do it for you. Not only that, the source you use is an Anti-Zionist blog which the author is spewing his own agenda.
how about i have a life beyond this forum and i haven't been here since my last post?

you want some scripture to go with that? how about some contemporary rabbinic knowledge? the stateof israel is a fraud, plain and simple. you cannot justify it in the context of hebrew law. prior to the murder of the six million, most jews opposed it and the ones who supported it, insisted on equal rights for the gentiles and peaceful coexistence for the neighbors. first, shema demands that we love everything. zionists hate arabs and are therefore in violation of the prime directive. further the seven noahide laws and the ten commandments do not have any provisions suspending them inthe name of the state and deuteronomy 8 and 11 specifically forbid what was done and continues to be done. finally the three oaths demand that the nation of israel lives under gentile rule until god himself establishes the new kingdom.

the three oaths

The first oath is, "shelo yaalu bachoma," that the Jews should not forcibly, "break through the wall," and enter Eretz Yisrael. The second is that the Jews should not rebel against the nations. The third is that the nations of the world should not oppress Yisrael too much over the course of the exile. According to R. Zera, there are three additional oaths which relate to the ultimate redemption. The Gemara concludes with the threat that if Israel violates these oaths, their flesh will be made free like wild animals in the field, i.e., Hashem would bring upon them great suffering and physical destruction.