israel is only defending itself

[Jazzy]

Please provide the link to the three oaths.

 

[TommyTooter]

https://www.kby.org/hebrew/torat-yavneh/view.asp?id=3970

 

[DrLeftover]

It has been my experience that various Jewish groups take those oaths with varying degrees of seriousness and unless you are a rabid anti-zionist you would be hard pressed to condemn the entire country to extinction at the hands of the Islamists based on them.

 

[TommyTooter]

It has been my experience that various Jewish groups take those oaths with varying degrees of seriousness and unless you are a rabid anti-zionist you would be hard pressed to condemn the entire country to extinction at the hands of the Islamists based on them.

i was one of the last students of louis binstock, a contemporary of elmer berger, the founder of the www.acjna.org, which was formed to protest the CCAR's endorsement of the jewish army britain wanted to form in 1942. there is a broad spectrum of practice among hebrew israelites. you have the ultra-orthodox haredim who are firm in their practice of all the traditional ritual and ceremony all the way to the opposite end of secular reform jews who don't practice the faith at all beyond conforming to the simple demands of shema and the ten commandments. the bottom line is that jews don't kill. zionists kill, therefore zionists are not jews, but politicos who exploit distortions of jewish law and tradition.

try to understand that the jews lived at peace in palestine and throughout the middle east as a minority for most of the past two millenniums. there were some isolated massacres in the early days of islam, but under ottoman rule, jews enjoyed protected minority status and the closer to the temple mount people lived, the more the cultures of the jews, muslims and christians overlap.

zionism and the exclusive ethnically correct apartheid system have upset that balance. there is also some very serious question as to the validity of the islamists as an enemy that isn't being paid to fight against somebody for zionist interests. the question is often asked why al qaeda and ISIS don't attack israel.

prior to the holocaust, the majority of the world's jews opposed the colonization of palestine, largely because of the oaths. we're not supposed to do it. what support they did have among the more assimilated secular jews was conditional, predicated on equal rights for the gentiles and peaceful coexistence with the neighboring states. that hasn't happened and the zionists have been committing some very serious war crimes. this is not to say that hamas is innocent of any war crimes, just that the zionist leadership needs to go.

as far as the palestinian people and moderate peace-loving jews are concerned, the two state solution is not viable. i can't see a divided jerusalem lasting very long if the jews snatch up all the prime real estate and leave the palestinians fenced in bantustans.

there is a growing call for the reunification of palestine and the establishment of a secular constitutional republic with smaller states. the ultra right will never accept it, but israel needs to accept being a part of palestine for a federation to work. jews have always been welcome to live in palestine, but we were forbidden to attempt to govern it and it clearly is headed for disaster on the path that it's on now.

 

[TommyTooter]

growing anti-zionist sentiment among young jews.

 

[DrLeftover]

Fascinating, almost American, media control by Hamas.

Myer Freimann of tabletmag broke the story this past week that the “Journal of Palestine Studies” reported that “[A]t least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials.” The journal article, written by Hamas-Friendly author Nicolas Pelham called into question the authenticity of pro-Hamas sympathizers, who have been using the death of civilians to lash out at Israel.

http://www.brennerbrief.com/journal-of-palestine-studies-removes-article-about-children-killed-in-tunnels/

 

[TommyTooter]

i'll say it again, the first victim of war is truth. this war has been going on almost 100 years now and today, both sides are full of crap. the people of palestine knew how to get along before the warmongering zionists and jihadists upset the applecart.

on the activist level, pro-hamas people are just as twisted as the pro-zionists, particularly those who support armed insurrection. they're just playing into the hands of the bankers who are funding both ends from the middle.

 

[DrLeftover]

Question, if you don't mind.

Did Hamas use, or did they not use, children to dig their tunnels under unsafe, and possibly lethal, conditions?

 

[TommyTooter]

the assertion that children were used by hamas for tunnel construction originated on a respected non-profit, non-aligned research organization, but i think calling them terror tunnels is misleading and sensationalist. the tunnels were used mostly for smuggling goods in, not for launching attacks. there is even a story of somebody who had a bucket of kentucky fried chicken smuggled in.

it looks to me like the zionist propaganda mill got hold of a legitimate study from an arabic source and have distorted it to suit their narrative.


http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/180400/hamas-killed-160-palestinian-children-to-build-terror-tunnels
The Institute for Palestine Studies published a detailed report on Gaza’s Tunnel Phenomenon in the summer of 2012. It reported that tunnel construction in Gaza has resulted in a large number of child deaths.

“At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials”

The author, Nicolas Pelham, explains that Hamas uses child laborers to build their terror tunnels because, “much as in Victorian coal mines, they are prized for their nimble bodies”.

Human rights groups operating in Gaza raised concerns about child labor in the tunnels as far back as 2008. Hamas responded by saying it was “considering curbs.” Following Operation Cast Lead in 2009 Hamas softened its position and the Interior Ministry established the Tunnel Affairs Commission (TAC) which, “In response to public concern at a rising toll of tunnel casualties, particularly of child workers…issued guidelines intended to ensure safe working conditions.” No mention is made in the report of the conditions that would result for both Palestinian and Israeli children from building tunnels that would be used to launch terror attacks.

http://www.palestine-studies.org

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

try to understand that the jews lived at peace in palestine and throughout the middle east as a minority for most of the past two millenniums. there were some isolated massacres in the early days of islam, but under ottoman rule, jews enjoyed protected minority status and the closer to the temple mount people lived, the more the cultures of the jews, muslims and christians overlap.

Nonsense!

Quote:In 175 BCE the King of Syria desecrated the temple and implemented a series of laws aiming to wipe out Judaism in favour of Zeus worship. There was a revolt (164 BCE) and the temple was restored.The revolt is celebrated in the Jewish festival of Hannukah.


Quote:In 624, Mohammed led a raid for booty and plunder against a Meccan caravan, killing 70 Meccans for mere material gain. Between 630 A.D. and the death of Mohammed in 632 A.D., Muslims -- on at least one occasion led by Mohammed -- had conquered the bulk of western Arabia and southern Palestine through approximately a dozen separate invasions and bloody conquests. These conquests were in large part "Holy wars," putting the lie to another statement in the U.S. News article that proclaimed the Crusades "The First Holy War," as if the Christians had invented the concept of a holy war. After Mohammed's death in 632, the new Muslim caliph, Abu Bakr, launched Islam into almost 1,500 years of continual imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of others through invasion and war, a role Islam continues to this very day.


Quote: Christians and Jews could not bear arms -- Muslims could;
Christians and Jews could not ride horses -- Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to get permission to build -- Muslims did not;
Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
Christians could not proselytize -- Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to bow to their Muslim masters when they paid their taxes; and
Christians and Jews had to live under the law set forth in the Koran, not under either their own religious or secular law.


Quote:The Muslim imperialist, colonialist, bloody conquest and subjugation of Palestine began with a battle, the August 20, 636, battle of Yarmk (it is believed that 75,000 soldiers took part -- hardly bloodless). With the help of the local Jews who welcomed the Muslims as liberators, the Muslims had subjugated the remainder of Palestine but had not been able to capture Jerusalem. Beginning in July 637, the Muslims began a siege of Jerusalem which lasted for five (hardly bloodless) months before Jerusalem fell in February 638. Arabs did not sack the city, and the Arab soldiers were apparently kept in tight control by their leaders. No destruction was permitted. This was indeed a triumph of civilized control, if imperialism, colonization, and bloody conquest can ever be said to be "civilized." It was at this conquest that many significant hallmarks of Muslim colonialism began. The conquered Christian and Jewish people were made to pay a tribute to the colonialist Muslims. In addition, Baghdad used the imperialist, colonialist, bloody wars of conquest throughout the life of its empire to provide the Caliphate with a steady stream of slaves, many of whom were made eunuchs.


Quote: beginning at approximately 725 A.D. The occasion, among other things, was the decline of the central Muslim government, the breaking away from Arabia of far-flung provinces, the growth of warlike revolutionary groups, the growth of extremist Muslim sects, and, perhaps most important, the decision (relatively new) that Muslims had an obligation to convert all Christians and Jews (and "other pagans") to Islam. Thereafter, the true colonial nature of Jerusalem became more apparent. The Abbasids drained wealth from Jerusalem to Baghdad for the benefit of the caliphs, and Jerusalem declined economically.


Quote:Jerusalem and its Christian and Jewish majority suffered greatly during alternating periods of peace and war. Among the happenings were repeated Muslim destruction of the countryside of Israel (970-983, and 1024-1077) of Jerusalem; the wholesale destruction by the Muslims of Christian churches -- sometimes at the direct order of the Caliph, as in 1003, and sometimes by Muslim mobs; the total destruction of Jerusalem by the Caliph of Cairo in the early 1020s; building small mosques on the top of Christian churches; enforcing the Muslim laws limiting the height of Christian churches; attacking and robbing Christian pilgrims from Europe; attacking Christian processions in the streets of Jerusalem; etc.

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/onlined...y0212.aspx

 

[TommyTooter]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

What point? You said they have lived in peace for thousands of years. They have done no such thing. Give me a begining time span to the ending time you are discussing of these thousands of years.

 

[TommyTooter]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

What point? You said they have lived in peace for thousands of years. They have done no such thing. Give me a begining time span to the ending time you are discussing of these thousands of years.

be good little conservatard and fuck off, okay? you are not intellectually competent to debate me and i'm not in good enough control of my emotions to not get aggravated by your ignorance, pigheadedness and fanatical belief in lies.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

What point? You said they have lived in peace for thousands of years. They have done no such thing. Give me a begining time span to the ending time you are discussing of these thousands of years.

be good little conservatard and fuck off, okay? you are not intellectually competent to debate me and i'm not in good enough control of my emotions to not get aggravated by your ignorance, pigheadedness and fanatical belief in lies.

Get all aggravated as much as you want I will not be going anywhere when I see things like this I find to be outright lies.

 

[TommyTooter]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

What point? You said they have lived in peace for thousands of years. They have done no such thing. Give me a begining time span to the ending time you are discussing of these thousands of years.

be good little conservatard and fuck off, okay? you are not intellectually competent to debate me and i'm not in good enough control of my emotions to not get aggravated by your ignorance, pigheadedness and fanatical belief in lies.

Get all aggravated as much as you want I will not be going anywhere when I see things like this I find to be outright lies.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - joseph goebbels

George Orwell — 'Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. '

“It is startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.”
― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

“people with a sense of fulfillment think it is a good world and would like to conserve it as it is, while the frustrated favor radical change.”
― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”


― Mark Twain

son, you're not intellectually competent and are completely lacking in the language skills necessary to do anything but make yourself look ridiculous every time you challenge me to everybody in the room other than kool-aid drinking conservatards like yourself.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

well thanks for proving my point with that magnificent cut and pasta job.

those examples are all from the early days of islam and there was very little more until the hebron massacre of 1929. in fact, the ottoman emperor dispatched his navy in 1492 to help rescue jews getting expelled from spain.

some more kool-aid, mentally conditioned islamophobic imbecile?

What point? You said they have lived in peace for thousands of years. They have done no such thing. Give me a begining time span to the ending time you are discussing of these thousands of years.

be good little conservatard and fuck off, okay? you are not intellectually competent to debate me and i'm not in good enough control of my emotions to not get aggravated by your ignorance, pigheadedness and fanatical belief in lies.

Get all aggravated as much as you want I will not be going anywhere when I see things like this I find to be outright lies.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - joseph goebbels

George Orwell — 'Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. '

“It is startling to realize how much unbelief is necessary to make belief possible.”
― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

“people with a sense of fulfillment think it is a good world and would like to conserve it as it is, while the frustrated favor radical change.”
― Eric Hoffer, The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”


― Mark Twain

son, you're not intellectually competent and are completely lacking in the language skills necessary to do anything but make yourself look ridiculous every time you challenge me to everybody in the room other than kool-aid drinking conservatards like yourself.

Okay? LOL!