Sexism in Video Games

[Dee]

Gonna branch off the Anita Sarkeesian thread here and have a conversation of our own. I'd love to hear what some guys think about the issue at hand, if you even think there's an issue in the video game industry, or what our female gamers think about this particular discussion.

Before we actually talk about it, we need to realize that both men and women are both very unrealistic in the video games we play.  Why?  Because they are fiction (typically).  So this applies to both genders, not just women.  What exactly constitutes sexism in video games?  Why are things not changing, or are they?  Give us examples, let's have a genuine talk about what may be wrong and what some developers are doing right. I think this guy's got some really good points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR9UMgOFeLw​

 

[seasidemike]

other than being annoying sometimes in his delivery, his points are very good.
The thing is this, taking for example Grand Theft Auto as an example.

Where the recommended age for this game seems to vary to between 14 and 18 years of age, the reality is that kids much younger are playing it.

So in early stages of puberty and when boys are starting to view girls differently, is it really a good idea to have them spending hours in front of a video game paying for hookers, killing hookers, discarding or using the body of a dead women as a shield to protect against gun fire a really good way to help him develop his views of women in society?

So then assuming this should follow under the responsibility of the parents, lets ask that even at 18 years of age, is this the way women want to be viewed in video games?

 

[Kirito]

So then assuming this should follow under the responsibility of the parents, lets ask that even at 18 years of age, is this the way women want to be viewed in video games?

I love how you focus on the killing hookers part. You can kill everyone there. Men, women, white, black, mexican, etc etc. There's no distinction.

Should the game only not allow you to kill hookers then? Or should there not be hookers in the big American cities in GTA? No matter how women want to be viewed, prostitution is part of real life, so why should it not be in videogames?

 

[seasidemike]

So then assuming this should follow under the responsibility of the parents, lets ask that even at 18 years of age, is this the way women want to be viewed in video games?

I love how you focus on the killing hookers part. You can kill everyone there. Men, women, white, black, mexican, etc etc. There's no distinction.

Should the game only not allow you to kill hookers then? Or should there not be hookers in the big American cities in GTA? No matter how women want to be viewed, prostitution is part of real life, so why should it not be in videogames?

and is beating them and killing them at will part of real life?
The difference from what am aware, is that the other 'men, whites, Mexicans and blacks are active pay elements of the game, and can kill the main character in many cases, the female characters are usually always victims and unable to defend themselves.

It is the message it sends

 

[DrLeftover]

This issue has been around since the days of "Leisure Suit Larry".

Nothing has changed.

 

[Dee]

This issue has been around since the days of "Leisure Suit Larry".

Nothing has changed.

I find it a pretty big problem in that case, DrLeftover. Why hasn't anything changed? Is it just because it's the norm? Are men supposed to be this idealized figure, handsome, rugged, and white? And are women supposed to have big breasts, tiny waists, and wide, child-bearing hips? Are women only prostitutes? Why can't we go to a club where there is male dancers? Those exist. Why is it just women dancing in their underwear/practically nothing in games like GTA?

 

[Kirito]

So then assuming this should follow under the responsibility of the parents, lets ask that even at 18 years of age, is this the way women want to be viewed in video games?

I love how you focus on the killing hookers part. You can kill everyone there. Men, women, white, black, mexican, etc etc. There's no distinction.

Should the game only not allow you to kill hookers then? Or should there not be hookers in the big American cities in GTA? No matter how women want to be viewed, prostitution is part of real life, so why should it not be in videogames?

and is beating them and killing them at will part of real life?
The difference from what am aware, is that the other 'men, whites, Mexicans and blacks are active pay elements of the game, and can kill the main character in many cases, the female characters are usually always victims and unable to defend themselves.

It is the message it sends

No, beating and killing people in general is the point of the whole game. Now I haven't played the latest GTA, but in earlier versions (vice city, san andreas) they could defend themselves just as well as your regular suit white guy walking around.

"The message it sends" is in general quite awful when it comes to this game. There's a reason why it's always GTAs fault when there's yet another shoot out in the media. It is without a doubt the most well known controversial franchise and IMO quite inaccurate to use this example for the entire gaming industry.

I still stand by my point though. The franchise generally shows cities in decline, with rampant criminal activity. Having no hookers there would be ridiculous EA-style censorship.
------------------------------------------------------------------

This issue has been around since the days of "Leisure Suit Larry".

Nothing has changed.

I find it a pretty big problem in that case, DrLeftover.  Why hasn't anything changed?  Is it just because it's the norm?  Are men supposed to be this idealized figure, handsome, rugged, and white?  And are women supposed to have big breasts, tiny waists, and wide, child-bearing hips?  Are women only prostitutes?  Why can't we go to a club where there is male dancers?  Those exist.  Why is it just women dancing in their underwear/practically nothing in games like GTA?

There's plenty of women in GTA though. Fat, skinny, white, black and definitely not all prostitutes.

As for the "why are women only prostitutes", there are games with male prostitutes. Dragon Age for example.




Now I'm not saying all this because I believe there is no issue. I do believe there is, as stated in the other thread already. I just find this discussion particularly one sided, using the most extreme examples. The gaming industry IS moving forward. Many of them showing gay relationships, smart women in powerful positions (although of course still attractive, it is entertainment after all) and a definitely not all white cast.

 

[DrLeftover]

This issue has been around since the days of "Leisure Suit Larry".

Nothing has changed.

I find it a pretty big problem in that case, DrLeftover.  Why hasn't anything changed?  Is it just because it's the norm?  Are men supposed to be this idealized figure, handsome, rugged, and white?  And are women supposed to have big breasts, tiny waists, and wide, child-bearing hips?  Are women only prostitutes?  Why can't we go to a club where there is male dancers?  Those exist.  Why is it just women dancing in their underwear/practically nothing in games like GTA?

I don't write video games.

I do, however, write fiction, and in those efforts, I try to portray the women as close to life as possible.

Which means, they look, and act, as real as possible within the confines of the story at hand.