Texas Set To Allow Open-Carry

[Webster]

...another victory for the 2nd Amendment!

By Kellan Howell – The Washington Times – Saturday, April 18, 2015

Texans could soon be allowed to openly carry handguns, a change gun-rights activists have been seeking for years.

On Friday the Texas House of Representatives voted 96-35 to allow Texans with concealed-handgun licenses to openly carry their guns in public in holsters, The Wall Street Journal reported Friday. A similar open-carry measure passed the Texas Senate last month. Both open-carry measures must be squared and sent to Republican Gov. Greg Abbott, who has indicated support for the idea, The Journal reported.

Texas is currently one of six states, including California, New York and Florida, that bars citizens from openly carrying handguns. But Texans can carry long guns in public, which has prompted gun-rights activists to carry assault rifles into restaurants and stores to highlight what they consider a senseless legal distinction.

Gun-rights groups are also pushing for legislation to allow some students and university employees to carry concealed handguns on college campuses. The state Senate passed a campus-carry measure last month and the House is expected to pass a similar measure. Mr. Abbott also supports the campus-carry idea. That law would make Texas one of only eight states with campus-carry laws permitting guns on college campuses.

“We are seeing historic progress in Texas,” Terry Holcomb Sr., executive director of Texas Carry, a gun-rights group told The Wall Street Journal. He noted that open-carry legislation had never even made it out of a Texas legislative committee before this year.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-open-carry-of-handguns-we-are/#ixzz3XmTezNGV

Thoughts?

 

[Dee]

I really don't trust the majority of people who decide they need to do this 'cause the fact of the matter is the lack of training and hours you're required to put into learning how a gun works and actually caring for and using it. Chances are, many owners don't take the time to gain the experience it takes to confidently own and operate a weapon, but apparently Texas thinks it's a good idea to let your average Nebulous do so. And fuck if I want some inexperienced wannabe cowboy gunslinger intervening in a potential confrontation on the street. It could easily escalate the situation, or put us all in a lot more danger than is necessary. THAT BEING SAID, I live in a part of the country where I feel it is not necessary to walk around with a gun on your hip for the world to see. That's not to say I don't think you should own a gun. I feel if you are legally, physically, and mentally capable of owning/operating one, then so be it. I just feel open-carry is highly unnecessary and a step backward into the old west, which apparently we're living in.

 

[Rooster]

I don't live there now, but I grew up in Montana.

Montana is a seriously open carry State. I do not remember it being the "wild west" and, for that matter, I recall that very few people actually wore their gun in the cities or towns. I certainly never did, kept it in the car.

Which may also account for the fact I remember very little "road rage" back then. Everybody had at least one gun in the car!

But, that was Montana and I freely allow that in other States, as they say in the commercials..."Results may vary."

 

[Dee]

I don't live there now, but I grew up in Montana.

Montana is a seriously open carry State. I do not remember it being the "wild west" and, for that matter, I recall that very few people actually wore their gun in the cities or towns. I certainly never did, kept it in the car.

Which may also account for the fact I remember very little "road rage" back then. Everybody had at least one gun in the car!

But, that was Montana and I freely allow that in other States, as they say in the commercials..."Results may vary."

I can understand in certain cases where there might actually be dangerous animals lurking about (this applies to various dangerous places where getting shot is a real and constant threat). That's an entirely different situation, though.

 

[Rooster]

I can understand in certain cases where there might actually be dangerous animals lurking about (this applies to various dangerous places where getting shot is a real and constant threat). That's an entirely different situation, though.

I don't disagree all that much with your thoughts on this. It might indeed be a bad idea for Texas (or elsewhere), and yes, certain individuals are going to have the "cowboy" mentality, which may lead to bad results (sigh).

But I offer my home state as an example where, at least when I lived there, it worked.

There were no shoot outs in the street, everybody respected the law, it worked.

But I suspect a lot of that was due to the culture. You were taught from an early age to respect the firearm, you learned acceptable behavior to go with firearms, and you were used to a society where virtually everybody possessed firearms. And in that society, where the law allowed you to carry openly...most people didn't.

I do not have a good explanation for why that was, I only know that it was.

As for "dangerous animals", if you are talking about the human variety () then I would prefer to remain armed.

If you are talking about the actual "animal" predators up that way, side arms don't really make that much of a difference. Perhaps for a wolf or a coyote, maybe, if you are good with a pistol. Rattlesnake if you are really good and accurate on the "quick draw". But not the rest.

I was actually really fast on the draw, and pretty accurate, when I was a kid (Yes, we went out in the mountains and practiced that stuff when we were kids! ) But I have seen a mountain lion in real life, on the run (no, not running at me ), and I know that even as fast as I am...I am not as fast as a mountain lion!

And the grizzly bear? I wouldn't even bother! Wouldn't phase him much, just make him even angrier...

 

[Dee]

I don't disagree all that much with your thoughts on this. It might indeed be a bad idea for Texas (or elsewhere), and yes, certain individuals are going to have the "cowboy" mentality, which may lead to bad results (sigh).

But I offer my home state as an example where, at least when I lived there, it worked.

There were no shoot outs in the street, everybody respected the law, it worked.

But I suspect a lot of that was due to the culture. You were taught from an early age to respect the firearm, you learned acceptable behavior to go with firearms, and you were used to a society where virtually everybody possessed firearms. And in that society, where the law allowed you to carry openly...most people didn't.

I do not have a good explanation for why that was, I only know that it was.

I get this. And I have no qualms about it, but that's not how our society as a whole works. We are 50 individual states that are vastly different in many avenues. In a state where, say, Montana for instance, you don't have very many big cities and there are plenty of people who come face to face with dangerous animals, who have also take the time to actually learn about guns and gun safety, operation, and proper storage and RESPECT first and foremost, then it's different. But this is not typically the case. There is this existing mentality in the states where guns are "cool" and any Tom, Dick, or Harry off the street can get one in about a week as long as they're not a felon. But when you allow someone who's grown up with this "guns-are-cool-factor" mentality and don't require them to take a certain amount of hours in order to train and carry one, that is where my trust in the general public tends to slide.

As for "dangerous animals", if you are talking about the human variety () then I would prefer to remain armed.

It was meant to be taken either way.

If you are talking about the actual "animal" predators up that way, side arms don't really make that much of a difference. Perhaps for a wolf or a coyote, maybe, if you are good with a pistol. Rattlesnake if you are really good and accurate on the "quick draw". But not the rest.

I was actually really fast on the draw, and pretty accurate, when I was a kid (Yes, we went out in the mountains and practiced that stuff when we were kids! ) But I have seen a mountain lion in real life, on the run (no, not running at me ), and I know that even as fast as I am...I am not as fast as a mountain lion!

And the grizzly bear? I wouldn't even bother! Wouldn't phase him much, just make him even angrier...

Again, most people without the experience of actually learning about it or finding that out for themselves will be open-carrying in Texas and other states where this is legal (ahem, like mine, apparently). I just think it's ridiculous, and even though it's legal here with or without a permit in Oregon, you rarely if EVER see anyone carrying around their weapon where it's visible. Why? Not because it's illegal. It's not. It's just not necessary (and you may be slapped with a fine if you carry so many ft close to a school, but hey...there's that, too).

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

This is fantastic! Florida and Texas are similar in many ways and we will probably be next to bring this law into place with the heavy lobbying going on.

 

[Rooster]

@Dee

I agree.

(I suspected we were not far apart on this )

But as you point out, every State is different and every State gets to decide. Looks like Texas is deciding. Should be "interesting" to see what headlines come out of Texas in the next few years.

Perhaps in a generation or two, when they are finally "used" to it....It might settle down!

Say, I live in North Idaho, we are practically neighbors!

For the internet, that is...

 

[Dee]

@Dee

I agree.

(I suspected we were not far apart on this )

But as you point out, every State is different and every State gets to decide. Looks like Texas is deciding. Should be "interesting" to see what headlines come out of Texas in the next few years.

Perhaps in a generation or two, when they are finally "used" to it....It might settle down!

Say, I live in North Idaho, we are practically neighbors!

For the internet, that is...

Yeah, I understand that it's an individual state thing, and that it's going to be more prominent in other places. The funny thing, though, is probably a good number of gun owners don't feel the need to walk around with a gun on their hip unless they work for the local police department, which is nice because it tells me that things have quite obviously changed to the point where we no longer have an innate fear of being gunned down on the streets. In some places it will be different, obviously. Hell, I'd want a gun if I felt my life was in danger at any given moment, but I don't and statistically I am not likely to be shot in Portland, Oregon. I've lived here for over 10 years and never once have I been in a situation where someone pointed a gun at me. In the 29 years I've been on this planet, I've never had that happen and I've lived all up and down the west coast, even the armpit of California, so THAT is why I am not all that jazzed about open-carry.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

This weak excuse for under trained people sounds like the same excuse that came out when Florida made the stand your ground law. The left was saying the wild west had returned and everyone from little old ladies to peoples pet dogs would be shot in the street. And yet since it's inception thousands have been saved from it. And the very group of people that the left is so supposed to care about it has saved more then any other race. And that would Blacks in Florida still alive thanks to the law. So it is just another ridiculous fear people are trying to put into peoples minds.

 

[Dee]

This weak excuse for under trained people sounds like the same excuse that came out when Florida made the stand your ground law. The left was saying the wild west had returned and everyone from little old ladies to peoples pet dogs would be shot in the street. And yet since it's inception thousands have been saved from it. And the very group of people that the left is so supposed to care about it has saved more then any other race. And that would Blacks in Florida still alive thanks to the law. So it is just another ridiculous fear people are trying to put into peoples minds.

It's not a fear of the gun itself, though. It's a mistrust for people who are stasticically less likely to have the experience they need to operate the gun. For instance, there was a man in the mall here during the shooting that happened at Clackamas Town Center who had his gun on him when Jacob Roberts came in with a Bushmaster M4. He was confronted by another man legally permitted to carry a weapon, but no shots were fired. No one knew what experience he had, but no one--not even the cops--pulled any triggers There was too much chaos. And the guy admitted he froze and couldn't pull the trigger. I don't recall who it was specifically, but it was all over the news. Two people died that day; a third nearly died but survived and is doing well. That's just one of many examples of how great a job your friendly, neighborhood gunslinger is doing!

The fact of the matter is that normal citizens ARE NOT REQUIRED to receive the kind of training police officers are required to meet, and yet we allow them to own and carry a gun with them in public in many states. The chances of them having the experience needed to properly operate the weapon are not as good as if they had been required by law to meet a certain amount of time, and that is where my mistrust stems from, which I feel is entirely warranted given how many stories you hear about how owning a weapon has backfired (no pun intended?) in the past. What about the woman who was shot when her child pulled the gun out of her purse? Or how about the 3-year-old boy who just killed the one-year-old? With as many lives as open carry seemingly saves, there are plenty more idiots out there who are irresponsible and don't have the mental capacity to treat these weapons with the respect they need to be treated with. At least with a uniformed police officer, you know they've been through rigorous training to handle that weapon AND will be going through some tedious process should they have/need to pull the trigger. With a plain Jane or average Nebulous carrying a gun on their hip holster--pfft, fuck if if I know what experience they have--if any.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Life Jackets don't always save lives either but I would never consider banning them because a few idiots don't wear them or put them on correctly. Carrying concealed is far more hard and in many ways more dangerous then open carry. And I bet you could not even come up with even close to 1% of the concealed carry people making mistakes you mentioned above. So carrying a gun by a million miles saves more lives then it takes.


The top 10 of valid permits by state breaks down like this:

1. Florida -- 887,000;
2. Pennsylvania -- 786,000;
3. Georgia -- 600,000;
4. Texas -- 519,000;
5. Indiana -- 406,000;
6. Washington -- 351,000;
7. Utah -- 347,000;
8. Tennessee -- 341,000;
9. Michigan -- 296,000;
10. Virginia -- 279,000.

 

[Dee]

Life Jackets don't always save lives either but I would never consider banning them because a few idiots don't wear them or put them on correctly. Carrying concealed is far more hard and in many ways more dangerous then open carry. And I bet you could not even come up with even close to 1% of the concealed carry people making mistakes you mentioned above. So carrying a gun by a million miles saves more lives then it takes.


The top 10 of valid permits by state breaks down like this:

1. Florida -- 887,000;
2. Pennsylvania -- 786,000;
3. Georgia -- 600,000;
4. Texas -- 519,000;
5. Indiana -- 406,000;
6. Washington -- 351,000;
7. Utah -- 347,000;
8. Tennessee -- 341,000;
9. Michigan -- 296,000;
10. Virginia -- 279,000.

Your example of life jackets is stupid mainly because they are designed to save lives, not kill/injure people like guns are. Well, at least designed to kill people faster anyway.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Hell, I'd want a gun if I felt my life was in danger at any given moment, but I don't and statistically I am not likely to be shot in Portland, Oregon.

Are you sure!

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Your example of life jackets is stupid mainly because they are designed to save lives, not kill/injure people like guns are. Well, at least designed to kill people faster anyway.

Guns are designed to save lives also as thousands of people every year would testify to. But just like guns if you don't use them correctly people die.