what IS a general 'Force For Good'?

[DrLeftover]

As the "is religion a force for good" thread has evidently reached a consensus that it is Not, I thought I would ask a follow up question.

Barring anything filed in the drawer with "Religion" on the tag, which includes organizations so founded (such as the St Vincent Depaul Society which provides general assistance to those in need, but is a ministry of the Catholic Church)....

.... What is, generally, a Force for Good in the World?

I will hold up the Red Cross as the lead example, they were founded as, and still are (for the most part), a secular organization.

http://www.redcross.org/

 

[Bluezone777]

It really comes down to who is using the tool in question and not the tool itself. A person who wants to do evil can take anything good and ruin it but it doesn't mean the thing in question was a force for evil as it was the person behind it that made it so.

 

[Fatal Dawn]

It's hard to say what is truly a force for good. The road to hell is paved with so many good intentions. And there are many ways people define and interpret goodness. Is something good because it leads to a good result or is it good because it is done in good faith? The former dilutes morality into a series of end products. The latter assumes that we, as humans, can determine another's intentions.

I would argue that there is one value that comes to mind in terms of goodness: Justice. I think this was raised in another thread. It goes back to the Golden Rule and the innate human primacy to do to others what we would have done to ourselves. Almost every organization/institution I have seen wants to establish this good. It is the basis for governance, social interactions, and even culture itself. To quote, social philosopher John Rawls, "it is the first virtue of social institutions."

The Red Cross website has several incarnations of justice listed in its code of principles: http://www.redcross.org/about-us/mission


Instead of the general good, maybe the more prodding question is what is the general evil? I generally hear people talk about how there is so much injustice in the world (denial of rights, opportunities, resources, etc.) Justice, then, becomes the antithesis of that. Justice is good from both a utilitarian and deontological perspective. Thus, it can be considered is a general good.

It really comes down to who is using the tool in question and not the tool itself. A person who wants to do evil can take anything good and ruin it but it doesn't mean the thing in question was a force for evil as it was the person behind it that made it so.

It begs the question of what made them that way? Assuming people are not innately evil, there has to be a driving force. What is causing them to make the choice to do evil? Things like power and money, for example have been known to corrupt otherwise good-natured people. Do people ruin money, or does money ruin people?

1 Timothy 6:10 (KJV)-- "For the love of money is the root of all evil..."

 

[DrLeftover]

I don't think it is all that tough to recognize evil.

We could start with:

Slavery’s last stronghold

Mauritania’s endless sea of sand dunes hides an open secret: An estimated 10% to 20% of the population lives in slavery. But as one woman’s journey shows, the first step toward freedom is realizing you’re enslaved.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.stronghold/

And in Europe
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/feature1/

 

[+paradox]

any force can be good.

force of love can be the most powerful, but it's the hearts that create good in something and someone, then their actions will be good.

if the actions are bad or evil then the hearts ain't good or the bad or evil has become more powerful than the good that's in you. the force of love can overtake your hearts again by breaking the bad or evil that's in your hearts.

 

[Fatal Dawn]

I don't think it is all that tough to recognize evil.

We could start with:

Slavery’s last stronghold

Mauritania’s endless sea of sand dunes hides an open secret: An estimated 10% to 20% of the population lives in slavery. But as one woman’s journey shows, the first step toward freedom is realizing you’re enslaved.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/03/world/mauritania.slaverys.last.stronghold/

And in Europe
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0309/feature1/

A famous line from a beloved poet:
"(...)For there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." -- William Shakespeare, Hamlet

What is your definition of evil? I think when people think of good and evil they really only mean causality and not intentionality. If we approach goodness through intentionality, we have to examine moral motivation -- what motivates people to make moral judgements of right and wrong. Are people internally motivated or are they externally motivated? Well, I think both are important and intertwined in moral judgements. Money, the external motivator, leads to greed. Greed, the internal motivator, leads to injustice, the action most people see, perceive and recognize, as morally wrong.

From the National Geographic article:

Victoria was a debt slave. Payment for her services went straight to her owner of the moment to cover her "debt"—the amount he had paid to buy her from her previous owner. She was held in servitude unless or until the money she owed to whomever controlled her had been recovered, at which point she would be sold again and would begin to work off the purchase price paid by her new owner.

If I am sounding too fatalistic in my approach, I apologize. Sure, people are not billiard balls smacked around by outside forces; but, people are not born slavers and killers, either. Some people's conceptions of right or wrong completely depends on what brings them pleasure at the current moment. It does not mean their evil, just hedonistic.

 

[DrLeftover]

Perhaps we need a new thread to discuss our working definition of Evil.

But, it could be, that if you do not believe in an Ultimate Good in the Universe, then you also do not believe in an Absolute Evil as well, and therefore, things begin to exist in a state of mottled gray instead of black and white.

 

[Fatal Dawn]

Perhaps we need a new thread to discuss our working definition of Evil.

I agree. Say no more, I'll work on starting a new thread for that.