Florida schools will now actively carry rifles on school grounds

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

 

[Smiley]

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Children getting the same protection as the top people in government

 

[Smiley]

I have doubts and doubts accessories about how this will turn out...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I have doubts and doubts accessories about how this will turn out...

I have doubts about our leaders getting protection while telling others they shouldn’t. But in the end everyone should and now our children do.

 

[Smiley]

Well, I certainly hope something good will come out of it, but getting a bigger gun only motivates the other side to get an even bigger one. You know; escalation to the point of mutual destruction.

 

[Webster]

I have doubts and doubts accessories about how this will turn out...

I hope every teacher walks out and tells DeSantis "f--- you and your armed security!"

 

[Nebulous]

What a sad sad country I live in.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Well, I certainly hope something good will come out of it, but getting a bigger gun only motivates the other side to get an even bigger one. You know; escalation to the point of mutual destruction.

Getting a bigger gun establishes keeping the peace and obliterating the enemy if they take you on. And this means children are safer .

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I hope every teacher walks out and tells DeSantis "f--- you and your armed security!"

Then I’m sure you think every employee working in the White House should walk out also.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

What a sad sad country I live in.

What’s sad is this country has allowed morality to break down this bad to when I was a kid and you actually brought your rifle to school for clubs and gun safety. What’s sad is we have allowed mental illness to get this bad in the country and in many cases bully the population into thinking it’s normal. And now we are paying the price that we need to protect our children as good as the president gets.

 

[Vaeve]

Idk how this will turn out in terms of safety, but imagine going to School and seeing multiple armed people with rifles first thing in the morning, making all this normalized lmao. Truly a strange timeline.

 

[Mini Maul]

Would this even help some of the school shootings?

Like this one:

Santa Fe High School had a shooting plan, armed officers and practice. Ten people still died.

The southeast Texas school that was the site of Friday's mass shooting had won a statewide award for its safety plan and recently had to activate it during a false alarm about an active shooter. Its plan to arm teachers hadn't been implemented yet.

www.google.com

They had armed officers inside anyway. So it wasn't like the guy killed the officers because they had small guns.
Same with this one :

Uvalde Had Prepared for School Shootings. It Did Not Stop the Rampage.

Uvalde officials had trained to confront gunmen and, like other schools around the country, had invested in security.

www.google.com

----

So surely bigger guns don't actually deter the problem?
I think how say the White House (the president) and a Elementary School (kids) is a hard comparison to make because of a few things.
The White House is a off limit area for the public. Making it very hard to actually get into in comparison to a Public School. If restrictions for who could enter Public School grounds were implemented? Maybe that would be a better deter ant as long as there is only a set few ways into the school, leading me to second point.
The White House is a building with a set number of entrances. A Public School if not surrounded by fence (and even then) has multiple entrances so if you even make the School a restricted zone. People could break that anyway. So already its a security nightmare.

I still think those two things would help a ton with this kinda thing though.
Parents aren't allowed past a certain point and all adults allowed in are background checked anyway from their work.
Means if someone is seen on campus that you haven't seen before. Can instantly be reported.. That surely already is more of a deter ate than a bigger gun then they already carry?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Would this even help some of the school shootings?

Like this one:

Santa Fe High School had a shooting plan, armed officers and practice. Ten people still died.

The southeast Texas school that was the site of Friday's mass shooting had won a statewide award for its safety plan and recently had to activate it during a false alarm about an active shooter. Its plan to arm teachers hadn't been implemented yet.

www.google.com

They had armed officers inside anyway. So it wasn't like the guy killed the officers because they had small guns.
Same with this one :

Uvalde Had Prepared for School Shootings. It Did Not Stop the Rampage.

Uvalde officials had trained to confront gunmen and, like other schools around the country, had invested in security.

www.google.com

----

So surely bigger guns don't actually deter the problem?
I think how say the White House (the president) and a Elementary School (kids) is a hard comparison to make because of a few things.
The White House is a off limit area for the public. Making it very hard to actually get into in comparison to a Public School. If restrictions for who could enter Public School grounds were implemented? Maybe that would be a better deter ant as long as there is only a set few ways into the school, leading me to second point.
The White House is a building with a set number of entrances. A Public School if not surrounded by fence (and even then) has multiple entrances so if you even make the School a restricted zone. People could break that anyway. So already its a security nightmare.

I still think those two things would help a ton with this kinda thing though.
Parents aren't allowed past a certain point and all adults allowed in are background checked anyway from their work.
Means if someone is seen on campus that you haven't seen before. Can instantly be reported.. That surely already is more of a deter ate than a bigger gun then they already carry?

Quote:

Now There’s Irrefutable Proof: Arming School Staff Keeps Kids Safe.​

Now There’s Irrefutable Proof: Arming School Staff Keeps Kids Safe

townhall.com

Quote: School Resource Officer Stopped School Shooting, Authorities Say​

School Resource Officer Stopped School Shooting, Authorities Say (Published 2018)

A police officer in Dixon, Ill., shot a gunman near a high school before anyone else was harmed.

www.nytimes.com

Why the White House and schools are different makes zero difference. First kids deserve the exact same protection. Second it’s just another tactical situation to figure out on how to keep a school secure.

 

[Mini Maul]

Quote:

Now There’s Irrefutable Proof: Arming School Staff Keeps Kids Safe.​

Now There’s Irrefutable Proof: Arming School Staff Keeps Kids Safe

townhall.com

Quote: School Resource Officer Stopped School Shooting, Authorities Say​

School Resource Officer Stopped School Shooting, Authorities Say (Published 2018)

A police officer in Dixon, Ill., shot a gunman near a high school before anyone else was harmed.

www.nytimes.com

Why the White House and schools are different makes zero difference. First kids deserve the exact same protection. Second it’s just another tactical situation to figure out on how to keep a school secure.

Its very easy to say more guns is better citing one time it did prevent it.

Every Incident of Mishandled Guns in Schools

Too many guns are fired or improperly handled by armed adults in schools.

giffords.org

Over 100 cases in which having more guns could essentially lead to more shooting in schools...thankfully the mast majority of those cases, the children reported it and it was handled. So its easy to back and forth with one incident after another.

-----------------
But back to the main point of the original post.

But isnt arming School Staff completely different to giving Police Officers bigger guns?
Completely different arguement in my opinion, as at least there is maybe some things you could argue for School Staff carrying guns (Although that also raises as many question as awnsers.

"Arming teachers introduces risks to students and staff, as well as school districts themselves. These include the risk of teachers accidentally shooting themselves or students and fellow staff. There are also moral and legal risks associated with improper or inaccurate defensive use of a firearm - even for teachers who have undertaken specialized firearms training.

One study found that highly trained police in gunfights hit their target only 18% of the time. Even if teachers, who would likely have less training, achieve the same accuracy, four or five of every six bullets fired by a teacher would hit something or someone other than the shooter. Further, a teacher responding with force to a shooter may be mistaken for the perpetrator by law enforcement or by armed colleagues.
Introducing guns to the school environment also poses everyday risks. Armed teachers may unintentionally discharge their firearm. For instance, an armed police officer accidentally discharged his weapon in his office at a school in Alexandria, Virginia in 2018. Guns can also fall into the wrong hands. Research on shootings that took place in hospital emergency rooms found that in 23% of the cases, the weapon used was a gun the perpetrator took from a hospital security guard.

Students could also access firearms that are improperly stored or mishandled. Improper storage is a common problem among American gun owners. In a school setting, this has resulted in students finding a teacher’s misplaced firearm, sometimes taking it or reporting it to another school official. News reports show that guns carried into schools have fallen out of teachers’ clothing, and have been left in bathrooms and locker rooms. There have also been reports of students stealing guns from teachers."

All these are valid arguements that could make people not want guns in schools. I for one am very surprised with the "highly trained police in gunfights hit their target only 18% of the time." statistic along with "Research on shootings that took place in hospital emergency rooms found that in 23% of the cases, the weapon used was a gun the perpetrator took from a hospital security guard." The research into the Police training article is well worth a read!

Its easy to find pros and cons for most things, and gun control/safety is more so divided in opinion. So i personally would prefer to see other ways in which you could protect people without the use or presense of guns to which i made in my first post.

Make school premises restricted areas for all the public. (Leaving just kids and screened employees) Some could even potentially be armed. But knowing who is on school grounds makes it easier to identify someone who isn't meant to be there.
Make it harder to get inside school grounds and no they doesnt mean by giving out bigger guns to people who already are armed. Fenced off areas, maybe more patrol around the perimeter of the school. maybe metal detectors at the entrance way, meaning anyone going in youngster wise cannot bring anything in with them? Im pretty sure some school in America already do that?

Unfortunately you are not going to stop school shootings or shootings in general for that matter. The only way to stop shootings would be to ban guns, and even then! It wont stop it.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Its very easy to say more guns is better citing one time it did prevent it.

Every Incident of Mishandled Guns in Schools

Too many guns are fired or improperly handled by armed adults in schools.

giffords.org

Over 100 cases in which having more guns could essentially lead to more shooting in schools...thankfully the mast majority of those cases, the children reported it and it was handled. So its easy to back and forth with one incident after another.

-----------------
But back to the main point of the original post.

But isnt arming School Staff completely different to giving Police Officers bigger guns?
Completely different arguement in my opinion, as at least there is maybe some things you could argue for School Staff carrying guns (Although that also raises as many question as awnsers.



All these are valid arguements that could make people not want guns in schools. I for one am very surprised with the "highly trained police in gunfights hit their target only 18% of the time." statistic along with "Research on shootings that took place in hospital emergency rooms found that in 23% of the cases, the weapon used was a gun the perpetrator took from a hospital security guard." The research into the Police training article is well worth a read!

Its easy to find pros and cons for most things, and gun control/safety is more so divided in opinion. So i personally would prefer to see other ways in which you could protect people without the use or presense of guns to which i made in my first post.

Make school premises restricted areas for all the public. (Leaving just kids and screened employees) Some could even potentially be armed. But knowing who is on school grounds makes it easier to identify someone who isn't meant to be there.
Make it harder to get inside school grounds and no they doesnt mean by giving out bigger guns to people who already are armed. Fenced off areas, maybe more patrol around the perimeter of the school. maybe metal detectors at the entrance way, meaning anyone going in youngster wise cannot bring anything in with them? Im pretty sure some school in America already do that?

Unfortunately you are not going to stop school shootings or shootings in general for that matter. The only way to stop shootings would be to ban guns, and even then! It wont stop it.

This good discussion let me respond tonight.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Its very easy to say more guns is better citing one time it did prevent it.

Cited 2.

Here is another. How many do you need to see it works when you have good people willing to fight back.

An Armed Principal Detained a Campus Gunman. But He’s Against Arming School Staff.​

An Armed Principal Detained a Campus Gunman. But He’s Against Arming School Staff. (Published 2018)

A national effort is underway to arm and train school staff members, but a former assistant principal who survived an attack believes it’s misguided.

www.nytimes.com

Here is 9 more.

9 Potential Mass Shootings That Were Stopped By Someone With A Personally Owned Firearm​

9 Potential Mass Shootings That Were Stopped By Someone With A Personally Owned Firearm

<b>Can law-abiding citizens with guns combat mass shootings?</b>

www.buzzfeednews.com

Every Incident of Mishandled Guns in Schools

Too many guns are fired or improperly handled by armed adults in schools.

giffords.org

Over 100 cases in which having more guns could essentially lead to more shooting in schools...thankfully the mast majority of those cases, the children reported it and it was handled. So its easy to back and forth with one incident after another.

It says could have but didn’t.

-----------------
But back to the main point of the original post.

But isnt arming School Staff completely different to giving Police Officers bigger guns?

I want both armed and trained but only from teachers that want to be trained and take regular training courses.

Completely different arguement in my opinion, as at least there is maybe some things you could argue for School Staff carrying guns (Although that also raises as many question as awnsers.

Teachers have been carrying guns in several states since 2012. It’s been fine.

Should Teachers Carry Guns? In Many Rural School Districts, They Already Are.

While a national debate about whether or not to arm teachers rages on, hundreds of school districts across the country have been allowing staff to carry weapons on school property for years.

psmag.com

Should Teachers Carry Guns? In Many Rural School Districts, They Already Are.

While a national debate about whether or not to arm teachers rages on, hundreds of school districts across the country have been allowing staff to carry weapons on school property for years.

psmag.com

All these are valid arguements that could make people not want guns in schools. I for one am very surprised with the "highly trained police in gunfights hit their target only 18% of the time." statistic along with "Research on shootings that took place in hospital emergency rooms found that in 23% of the cases, the weapon used was a gun the perpetrator took from a hospital security guard." The research into the Police training article is well worth a read!

Than you adapt and implement better training and not the overweight security guy who should be retired.

Its easy to find pros and cons for most things, and gun control/safety is more so divided in opinion. So i personally would prefer to see other ways in which you could protect people without the use or presense of guns to which i made in my first post.

I would also but I have not heard a proposal unless you are going to make schools just like a federal penitentiary and then in that environment kids won’t learn.

Make school premises restricted areas for all the public. (Leaving just kids and screened employees) Some could even potentially be armed. But knowing who is on school grounds makes it easier to identify someone who isn't meant to be there.
Make it harder to get inside school grounds and no they doesnt mean by giving out bigger guns to people who already are armed. Fenced off areas, maybe more patrol around the perimeter of the school. maybe metal detectors at the entrance way, meaning anyone going in youngster wise cannot bring anything in with them? Im pretty sure some school in America already do that?

Unfortunately you are not going to stop school shootings or shootings in general for that matter. The only way to stop shootings would be to ban guns, and even then! It wont stop it.

The only way you are going to curb school shootings is address the mental health crisis in our country but we aren’t even close to that point yet where people are living in a offended by everything culture.

 

[Mini Maul]

Cited 2.

Here is another. How many do you need to see it works when you have good people willing to fight back.

An Armed Principal Detained a Campus Gunman. But He’s Against Arming School Staff.​

An Armed Principal Detained a Campus Gunman. But He’s Against Arming School Staff. (Published 2018)

A national effort is underway to arm and train school staff members, but a former assistant principal who survived an attack believes it’s misguided.

www.nytimes.com

Here is 9 more.

9 Potential Mass Shootings That Were Stopped By Someone With A Personally Owned Firearm​

9 Potential Mass Shootings That Were Stopped By Someone With A Personally Owned Firearm

<b>Can law-abiding citizens with guns combat mass shootings?</b>

www.buzzfeednews.com

You really need to read your sources. You linked this article and even in the blurb (I cant read to full article because i need to pay a subscription)

"A police officer in Dixon, Ill., shot a gunman near a high school before anyone else was harmed."
it says before anyone else was harmed, doesnt even say he was heading to the school, just was near a school.

Also in the 9 Potential Mass Shootings article. Out of those 9 potential shooting. 7 of them wernt even schools and another was a School Dance so wasnt even in School time. So your at 1, maybe 2 sources, which A. Still resulted in Fatalities in each case. and B. is countered by the over 100 sources of potential killings i sourced if certain kids reacted different to guns being availabel in schools.

I want both armed and trained but only from teachers that want to be trained and take regular training courses.

What if the majority of teachers say no? You then havent even solved a issue, unless your making it compulsory? Which i assume is what protection in the White House is?

Than you adapt and implement better training and not the overweight security guy who should be retired.

I mean thats all well and good saying it but when there is a country wide shortage of police officers, cant just magically will them up and then implement even more rigorous training which may or may not even improve gun handling.

'We need them desperately': US police departments struggle with critical staffing shortages | CNN

Police departments from Atlanta to Kansas City to Portland are coping with critical staffing shortages and struggling to fill their ranks from patrol officers to 911 operators, as the warm weather historically portends bursts of violence in many parts of the United States.

edition.cnn.com

The only way you are going to curb school shootings is address the mental health crisis in our country but we aren’t even close to that point yet where people are living in a offended by everything culture.

I think thats a big issue worldwide in regards to mental health, but introducing more guns, let along bigger guns into the system isnt a stopgap or a via solution in my opinion.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

You really need to read your sources. You linked this article and even in the blurb (I cant read to full article because i need to pay a subscription)

Just tried it, I can read it, hmmm?

"A police officer in Dixon, Ill., shot a gunman near a high school before anyone else was harmed."
it says before anyone else was harmed, doesnt even say he was heading to the school, just was near a school.

Also in the 9 Potential Mass Shootings article. Out of those 9 potential shooting. 7 of them wernt even schools and another was a School Dance so wasnt even in School time. So your at 1, maybe 2 sources, which A. Still resulted in Fatalities in each case. and B. is countered by the over 100 sources of potential killings i sourced if certain kids reacted different to guns being availabel in schools.

Hero’ officer stopped Florida school shooter in 3 minutes, sheriff says​

‘Hero’ officer stopped Florida school shooter in 3 minutes, sheriff says

A school resource officer is being praised for his taking quick action to stop a Florida school shooting Friday morning.

wreg.com

Attempted School Shooting Stopped - Steve Fortin​

Attempted School Shooting Stopped - Steve Fortin

Attempted School Shooting Stopped

www.caledonianrecord.com

Resource officer shoots, kills ‘suspicious’ person outside Gadsden elementary school​

Resource officer shoots, kills ‘suspicious’ person outside Gadsden elementary school

GADSDEN, Ala. (WIAT) — Police shot and killed a “suspicious person” they said was attempting to enter an Alabama school, law enforcement confirmed Thursday morning. A man, identif…

www.cbs42.com

Man shot and killed after scuffle with Alabama elementary school police officer​

Man shot and killed after scuffle with Alabama elementary school police officer

Local sheriff reported the man was checking doors to the building and tried to take officer’s gun when confronted

www.theguardian.com

Ocala, Florida school shooting: School resource officer praised for quick actions​

Ocala, Florida school shooting: School resource officer praised for quick actions

Gunman identified as 19-year-old Sky Bouche told reporters, "I just shot through the door"

www.cbsnews.com

Man fatally shot by police near Toronto elementary school; SIU says BB gun recovered​

Man fatally shot by police near Toronto elementary school; SIU says BB gun recovered

One man is dead after being shot by police near a Toronto elementary school on Thursday afternoon. The incident sent hundreds of students into lockdown.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

What if the majority of teachers say no? You then havent even solved a issue, unless your making it compulsory? Which i assume is what protection in the White House is?

Teachers should be the last stand not the first.

I mean thats all well and good saying it but when there is a country wide shortage of police officers, cant just magically will them up and then implement even more rigorous training which may or may not even improve gun handling.

Thousands of highly trained veterans have said they would volunteer. We have plenty of people willing to donate the time to protect children it’s just governments don’t have the will to implement it.

'We need them desperately': US police departments struggle with critical staffing shortages | CNN

Police departments from Atlanta to Kansas City to Portland are coping with critical staffing shortages and struggling to fill their ranks from patrol officers to 911 operators, as the warm weather historically portends bursts of violence in many parts of the United States.

edition.cnn.com

I think thats a big issue worldwide in regards to mental health, but introducing more guns, let along bigger guns into the system isnt a stopgap or a via solution in my opinion.

It’s a stop gap, we still have plenty of mentally fit people to put these people down.

 

[Nebulous]

Idk how this will turn out in terms of safety, but imagine going to School and seeing multiple armed people with rifles first thing in the morning, making all this normalized lmao. Truly a strange timeline.

...going through a metal detector and being patted down by security is already a normalized daily routine for lots of students in high crime areas.