Gun ammunition ban

[Jazzy]

Second Amendment supporters in Congress are rallying against a controversial ammunition ban from the Obama administration.

Hundreds of lawmakers wrote to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) Wednesday, urging it to “abandon” a proposed ban on a popular armor-piercing bullet commonly used in AR-15 rifles.

The ATF’s proposed ban is intended to protect law enforcement officers from armor-piercing bullets and keep them out of harms way, but Republicans say the prohibition unfairly targets hunters, who sometimes use these guns.
“Under no circumstances should ATF adopt a standard that will ban ammunition that is overwhelmingly used by law-abiding Americans for legitimate purposes,” the lawmakers wrote in the letter to ATF Director B. Todd Jones.

The letter was signed by 239 House lawmakers, including Judiciary Chairman Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.) and seven Democrats.

This follows the introduction last week of the Protecting Second Amendment Rights Act from Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Fla.) that would roll back the ATF’s power to regulate ammunition.

To date, this type of AR-15 ammunition has been exempt from the Law Enforcement Officers Act, because, Republicans say, it is used primarily for hunting. But the ATF is proposing to effectively remove the exemption for these bullets.

Republicans say the ammunition ban “will interfere with Second Amendment rights” of hunters.

There are more than five million AR-15s in use around the country, the letter states, but cutting off a popular source of ammunition for these rifles would render them less effective.

“The ATF should refocus its efforts on serious threats to law enforcement officers,” the lawmakers wrote. The agency “has not even alleged — much less offered evidence — that even one such round has ever been fired from a handgun at a police officer.”

Source

Thoughts on this ammunition ban?

 

[seasidemike]

Absolutely, there is nothing in the constitution about the right to ammunition.
After all guns don't kill people, bullets do

 

[Webster]

Figures....they couldn't ban the AR-15, so they decided to go after the bullets...cute.

 

[Dee]

Hey, nice loophole. Let's do it.

 

[The Supreme King]

Who tf needs an armor piercing round to kill a deer?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Absolutely, there is nothing in the constitution about the right to ammunition.
After all guns don't kill people, bullets do

I am afraid it does not work that way or is it Constitutional. Just another one to add to the list for the supreme court.
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Who tf needs an armor piercing round to kill a deer?

It is a total lie they are not armor piercing rounds. I have those kinds of rounds stored away and they could in no way go through a armored vehicle. Because they travel at so high of a velocity they can potentially go through a bullet proof vest and they are using that for the lie of calling it armor piercing. 

 

[+paradox]

Absolutely, there is nothing in the constitution about the right to ammunition.
After all guns don't kill people, bullets do

I am afraid it does not work that way or is it Constitutional. Just another one to add to the list for the supreme court.


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Who tf needs an armor piercing round to kill a deer?

It is a total lie they are not armor piercing rounds. I have those kinds of rounds stored away and they could in no way go through a armored vehicle. Because they travel at so high of a velocity they can potentially go through a bullet proof vest and they are using that for the lie of calling it armor piercing. 

but a bulletproof vest is a type of armor, just like bulletproof car panels and windows... there's also different types of armor piercing rounds...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

No it's a best there is no armour in a vest. Armour piercing rounds is for piercing vehicles. Nothing about that bullet was designed for that purpose. You put the right load in my 357 magnum hand gun and you could get through some vests And it would not be armour piercing rounds.

 

[Jazzy]

More Information from another source: http://news.yahoo.com/us-considers-banning-type-popular-rifle-ammunition-082315307--politics.html

The Obama administration is considering banning a type of ammunition used in one of the most popular types of rifles because it says the bullets can pierce a police officer's protective vest when fired from a handgun.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is proposing the ban of some types of 5.56 mm rounds — or .223-caliber — used in widely available and popular AR-15-style rifles because the bullets can also be used in some new types of handguns. Other types of 5.56 mm rounds would still be legal to buy, own and fire from guns.

The rule change would affect only "M855 green tip" or "SS109" rounds with certain types of metal cores. People who already own the ammunition would be allowed to continue to legally own it, but manufacturers would not be allowed to produce, sell, import or distribute it.

In a letter to ATF Director B. Todd Jones last month, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., objected to the rule change, saying it would "interfere with Second Amendment rights by disrupting the market for ammunition that law-abiding Americans use for sporting and other legitimate purposes."

Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned since 1986 as a way to protect police officers under the federal Law Enforcement Officers Protection Act. The rifle bullets now facing a ban were long considered exempt because they were used for sporting purposes, such as target shooting.

An ATF spokeswoman, Ginger Colbrun, said Monday the agency is considering eliminating the exemption now because of the production of so-called AR pistols that can fire the same cartridge.

At issue is the material in the core of the bullets. As long as the bullet's core does not contain particular types of metal, including steel, iron or brass, the bullet would still be legally available.

Colbrun said 32 manufacturers make roughly 168 types of ammunition that can be used in the rifles and would remain legal.

What the ATF and this article doesn't tell you is that body armor is not rated for the type of weapon, but the type of ammunition. The typical soft body armor worn by Law Enforcement is rated for pistol ammunition (9mm, .45ACP, .357magnum etc.) and is not rated to stop ANY rifle ammunition. They don't tell you that ANY 5.56mm/.223 fired from any rifle or "pistol" can penetrate soft body armor. The only thing special about M855 ammo is that it is cheap military surplus and therefore affordable to shoot. The whole notion of banning this ammunition or any ammunition based off of its ability to penetrate body armor that isn't even rated to protect against it in the first place is ridiculous.

 

[Webster]

....thankfully, there's starting to be pushback on this end-run around the 2nd Amendment:
Excerpt...

(Fox News) Opposition to the Obama administration's proposal to ban a popular bullet is gaining steam in the House of Representatives, where more than half of the lawmakers have signed a letter opposing the move.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says it wants to ban popular .223 M855 “green tip” ammunition because the bullets can pierce bulletproof vests used by law enforcement. Although the ATF previously approved it in 1986, the agency now says that because handguns have now been designed that can also fire the bullets, police officers are now more likely to encounter them.Some 239 members of the House have now put their names to the letter opposing the ban, which they say would interfere with Americans’ Constitutional rights.

“This attack on the Second Amendment is wrong and should be overturned,” Rep. Bob Goodlatte, (R-Va.), who started the petition, said in a statement to FoxNews.com. "A clear, sizeable majority of the House agree,” he noted.

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest backed up the agency’s proposal at a press conference on Monday. “We are looking at additional ways to protect our brave men and women in law enforcement… This seems to be an area where everyone should agree that if there are armor-piercing bullets available that can fit into easily concealed weapons, that it puts our law enforcement at considerably more risk,” Earnest said.

But gun-rights groups such as the National Rifle Association note that almost all rifle bullets can pierce armor, and say that this is just an excuse for limiting civilian gun use.

“The claim that this is done out of a concern for law enforcement safety is a lie. The director of the Fraternal Order of Police has said this is not an issue of concern. And according to the FBI, not one single law enforcement officer has been killed with M855 ammunition fired from a handgun," Chris Cox, executive director of the NRA Institute for Legislative Action, told FoxNews.com.

Some law enforcement groups reached by FoxNews.com also say that they no need for the regulation.

“The notion that all of a sudden a new pistol requires banning what had long been perfectly legal ammunition doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to many officers,” William Johnson, executive director of the National Association of Police Organizations, told FoxNews.com.

NAPO represents over 1,000 police units and associations and 241,000 law enforcement officers around the country.

But some law enforcement experts support the ban.

“I am definitely for the banning of these rounds… officers worry about them all the time,” former NYPD detective Harry Houck told FoxNews.com, though he added that a ban might not actually keep criminals from getting the ammunition.

Gun control groups support the ban.

"We understand why law enforcement has always been concerned about the threat of armor-piercing bullets," Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, told FoxNews.com.

Lawmakers warn that the regulation – especially as it follows on the heels of attempts to restrict lead bullets -- will “result in drastically reduced options for lawful ammunition users.” Already, the ammunition has been cleared from many store shelves by gun owners looking to stock up in anticipation of the ban. The proposed regulation would not prohibit owning the bullets, but it would stop anyone from manufacturing or importing them.

Gun-rights groups also worry that the ban – if allowed to stand – won’t stop with this type of bullet.

“Almost any hunting rifle bullet will go through body armor, so you could prohibit almost any rifle bullet with this. This is the administration redefining the law on its own,” Alan Gottlieb, of the Second Amendment Foundation, told FoxNews.com.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Bullets are the guns and rifles.And guns and rifles are the bullets. They are one in the same. And what they are trying to do is breaking our law with the 2nd amendment. If the atf and federal government was not so corrupted they would openly say they will not enforce this that the dear leader has no authority to do such a thing. But as I said this will go to the courts like everything else.