Kids, guns and doctors’ rights

[Jazzy]

Pediatricians regularly give parents advice about how to keep their children safe at home: Stash toxic cleaners where young children cannot get to them, fence the backyard swimming pool, require bike helmets, and keep any firearms unloaded and locked away.

Physicians call this kind of preventive care "“anticipatory guidance". When it comes to guns, the National Rifle Association calls it an invasion of privacy.“ For a doctor to be able to do his or her job, they don't need to know whether a person owns a firearm or not, said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.

Governor Rick Scott signed a law making Florida the first state to limit a physician's ability to ask patients or their parents whether they own a gun. Those who do would be subject to discipline by the state medical board. Similar proposals now being considered by several other states have enraged many doctors who say the law impinges on their ability to deliver critical information to families.

Debate:
Physicians say firearms safety is a matter of public health; the NRA says it's a privacy issue. Who do you agree with and why?

 

[The Dragon Master]

“For a doctor to be able to do his or her job, they don’t need to know whether a person owns a firearm or not,’’ said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.

I kind of agree with that. I don't think it really matter's if someone owns a firearm and goes to the doctor with a cold or something. A doctor with common sense wouldn't ask if someone had a firearm in that case. But if a firearm is directly involved in an incident, then they should have the right to ask, since it's involved. Or if someone is going to have children and the doctors ask the parents if they have firearms so that they can give some safety advice, to avoid this;

He pointed to the recent death of a 3-year-old South Carolina girl who reportedly picked up her mother’s loaded handgun from a windowsill and was killed when it fired. Those are the kinds of tragedies that doctors try to prevent, he said.

No need to make it illegal for doctors to ask, instead make a nationalised gun safety program and let the doctors/social workers/etc refer parents to it.

 

[Jazzy]

Pediatricians regularly give parents advice about how to keep their children safe at home: Stash toxic cleaners where young children cannot get to them, fence the backyard swimming pool, require bike helmets, and keep any firearms unloaded and locked away.

Any parent that doesn't know to keep firearms unloaded and locked away, is a parent that should not even own a firearm.

’’ When it comes to guns, the National Rifle Association calls it an invasion of privacy.

100% agree that it's an invasion of privacy. It's no ones business if I own a firearm or not.

Similar proposals now being considered by several other states have enraged many doctors who say the law impinges on their ability to deliver critical information to families.

This made me laugh. Since when is keeping unloaded and locked away firearms considered critical information?

 

[Evil Eye]

Any parent that doesn't know to keep firearms unloaded and locked away, is a parent that should not even own a firearm.

Indeed, this is kinda odd...

Why would a doctor need to know if one of their patients has a gun? If they have a gun, they probably know it's meant to harm... Safety should then be a logical concern for the patient, not the doctor.

 

[Evil Eye]

Uh, excuse me?

Isn't that the point? To kill or injure humans or animals?

Self defence, yes, but only because of what it's meant to do.

 

[Jazzy]

Isn't that the point? To kill or injure humans or animals?

Ever hear of sports called Skeet Shooting and Target Shooting? Please don't tell me that you really think the only points of owning a firearm is to kill or injure humans or animals.

 

[Evil Eye]

All right, fine, clay doves. The fancy version of Duck Hunt... But surely this is not a game played at home?

 

[Jazzy]

All right, fine, clay doves. The fancy version of Duck Hunt... But surely this is not a game played at home?

I have 23 acres and am allowed to shoot firearms on my property. So....I could play this game at home if I wanted to. I can also target shoot here too. What difference does it matter where this game is played?

 

[Evil Eye]

Thank you for making my point for me, Jazzy.

When will people stop anthropomorhizing guns? Guns don't mean to do anything. They are inanimate, they can't do anything.

I did not say the gun means to do anything. I am well aware humans do things, not guns.

Humans meant guns to harm and destroy. It is the gun's original purpose, the thing is was meant to do when the first one was made.

As for them being inanimate and not able to do anything, well, I agree to the first point but you could certainly construct a weapon that automatically finds its target and shoots at it. This is, however, irrelevant to the discussion.

Now, this is my belief: No matter how you twist or turn it a firearm is a weapon meant for destruction, usually harming things that are actually alive rather than clay disks.

The sport you brought up is no different from actually hunting fowl (for sport obviously, you can't eat these things... probably) except that it's a lot less messy. The intent remains the same. And don't bring up anything about human nature now, please.

 

[DrLeftover]

Our local state schools routinely send home questionnaires that besides asking if the child has a regular bedtime, whether or not anyone in the family owns a firearm.



Every year I sent the form back to the school blank with a note attached requesting an audience with the principal to discuss it.



I only got a call to go to the school once.



I'm sure I was labeled a troublemaker.



The point being, how is the legal... .... repeated and in bold to ensure understanding... .... how is the LEGAL OWNERSHIP of a legal item of property any of anybody else's business?



What are they going to ask about next in the interest of protecting the children? - Do you keep any snakes as pets?

 

[Temerit]

This is what I mean when I say Off Topix is right wing, my head aches just from reading this.



Obviously gun safety is a matter of public health. I'm not sure you guys understand the role a pediatrician is meant to play, my uncle in a pediatrician and he has to deal with the crazies that don't want their kids immunized, he advises parents to watch the amount of time spent on electronics, and they care about how much exercise kids get because its a relevant piece of medical history.



Guns are a safety hazard for children, we have all seen/heard the horror stories. It is not invasive for a doctor to advise proper storage of such firearms.



EDIT: Honestly though I don't see why this is a big deal at all.. its not like you have to tell your doctor that you have guns.. even if they do ask.

 

[Jazzy]

It is not invasive for a doctor to advise proper storage of such firearms.

Please read the legal definition of invasion of privacy as quoted below.

invasion of privacy n. the intrusion into the personal life of another, without just cause, which can give the person whose privacy has been invaded a right to bring a lawsuit for damages against the person or entity that intruded. (quote source: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/invasion+of+privacy)

@Temerit: Can you please explain the just cause that pediatricians have to ask if parents own firearms? Can you also explain why pediatricians are not guilty of invasion of privacy by asking parents if they own firearms? Thank you in advance.

 

[Temerit]

Can you please explain the just cause that pediatricians have to ask if parents own firearms?

I think that would be a better question for the pediatricians. Was their reasoning not given in the article? It's not like doctors are out to get you.

Can you also explain why pediatricians are not guilty of invasion of privacy by asking parents if they own firearms?

Well if you read the whole definition, it certainly seems to be describing the invasion of privacy that I would have imagined, something more along the lines of a Breaking and Entering or trespassing on private property. Simply asking a question that pertains to public health, a question that can be answered in anyway without the slightest repercussion strongly differs from what I would conceive of as an invasion of privacy.



This is why I really see this is a non-issue. None of this questioning is compulsory, and lying about it isn't going to get you in trouble. And if you do tell them you own guns, they will just advise (bug you as I'm sure many of you would see it) that you store the weapons properly so that there is no risk of small children getting their hands on a loaded gun. I would also extrapolate that exchange to include anything else that pediatricians would advise a gun-owner to do.



There have to be health-pertinent reasons for why the pediatricians care about this issue, if it wasn't health related the Docs wouldn't give a crap.

 

[Jazzy]

Simply asking a question that pertains to public health, a question that can be answered in anyway without the slightest repercussion strongly differs from what I would conceive of as an invasion of privacy.

How does owning a firearm pertain to public health?

And if you do tell them you own guns, they will just advise (bug you as I'm sure many of you would see it) that you store the weapons properly so that there is no risk of small children getting their hands on a loaded gun. I would also extrapolate that exchange to include anything else that pediatricians would advise a gun-owner to do.

Never knew part of their medical training included a gun safety course.

There have to be health-pertinent reasons for why the pediatricians care about this issue, if it wasn't health related the Docs wouldn't give a crap.

I can't think of one reason. Can you?

 

[Temerit]

How does owning a firearm pertain to public health?

Public safety.

Never knew part of their medical training included a gun safety course.

http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/tpl_news.aspx?id=2802



HOLD UP...



I stumbled upon this..



http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/106/1/22.abstract



So I no longer really care about fighting for the rights of Pediatricians to ask such questions. But I still don't think its an invasion of privacy or a big deal at all. Just pointless because people that own guns are too stubborn to change unsafe storage habits anyway.

I can't think of one reason. Can you?

That's really strange if the reasoning behind the Pediatricians saying that this inhibits their ability to deliver care wasn't given in the article.

 

[Jazzy]

Public safety.

Sorry but Public safety and Public health are two very seperate entities. This article focused on the rights of Pediatricians to ask such questions about owning a firearm. As you can clearly read, owning a firearm has absolutely nothing to do with Public health.

HOLD UP...



I stumbled upon this..



http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/106/1/22.abstract

Proves Off Topix is not right wing.

Just pointless because people that own guns are too stubborn to change unsafe storage habits anyway.

Excuse me? Are you saying that ALL people who own guns use unsafe storage habits?

 

[Evil Eye]

This is what I mean when I say Off Topix is right wing, my head aches just from reading this.

Maybe.

I would, however, like to point out that the five people who posted here are not all of Off Topix. We have nearly a thousand members, granted most of them are inactive accounts but even if only a tenth of those are active, 5/100 is not even half.

 

[DrLeftover]

I've always thought that the majority of the membership were more to the left of center than otherwise.

 

[beowulf]

my two pennuth



guns dont kill people............people kill people, and if they dont use a firearm it will be a knife or a rock or a hammer or bare hands or anything else that is in easy access



why dont they ask if the child is in a home which has a car?.................since far more people/children are injured/killed in traffic accidents...............you will probably find more children are harmed by consuming alcohol or prescription drugs that arnt stored securely away out of sight than involved with firearms

 

[DrLeftover]

Remember, per the logic applied to firearms:



If there were no matches or lighters, there would be no arson.



But they never let facts like these get in their way... something about there are none so blind as....





http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001915.htm