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Pledge of Allegiance

I'm not sure if I agree with you on the pledge being that deep. It has different meaning to different people. Some people find certain lines of it offensive to their own religion, etc. Do you think someone should still be forced? With freedom of expression does not the Right to remain Silent tie in?



Just like the Freedom of Association also comes the right to choose whom you wish to associate with?



I think it should just be encouraged, not forced. In the politically correct world we live in, forcing this down the throat of people will not make them feel it has any more meaning, anyways. People are smart enough to think for themselves, and if they really want to, they will still do the Pledge of Allegiance.
 
There won't be a free america after the new medicare bill is passed, I heard the new bill is going to be forced to put to rest, kill and ages 75+ for the next 3 years. They will be able to kill all new borns also, because they want us out of the global depression everyone in by cutting down costs by getting rid of americans. After this new bill is passed the old america is dead anyway. There won't be a free america in our generation.
 
Unknown said:
There won't be a free america after the new medicare bill is passed, I heard the new bill is going to be forced to put to rest, kill and ages 75+ for the next 3 years. They will be able to kill all new borns also, because they want us out of the global depression everyone in by cutting down costs by getting rid of americans. After this new bill is passed the old america is dead anyway. There won't be a free america in our generation.

This isn't the place for healthcare debates. I'm a Libertarian conspiracty theorist,I attended the 9/12 protest in DC & I don't even buy into the crap you're trying to spread. Besides the fact that you are reciting talking points which you probably read in a false email & didn't take the time to even do so much as a snopes search, you are in the wrong thread to discuss the healthcare reform bill.
 
Why break tradition? People have been reciting the Pledge of Allegiance for hundreds of years and all of the sudden its wrong to say it?



That is not entirely true though, the phrase under god was added to the pledge in 1954, so we've actually only been saying this version for about 55 years. I'm an atheist so I don't like it, and I don't think children should be forced to say that we are a nation under God.



To go off topic...

There won't be a free america after the new medicare bill is passed, I heard the new bill is going to be forced to put to rest, kill and ages 75+ for the next 3 years. They will be able to kill all new borns also, because they want us out of the global depression everyone in by cutting down costs by getting rid of americans. After this new bill is passed the old america is dead anyway. There won't be a free america in our generation.
Wow, well at least we know the Republican and health insurance industry fear-mongering is working on some people. The death panel claim which you are referring to was started by a person that works for a right-wing think-tank group and is obviously opposed to healthcare reform, and what it refers to is a provision that is no longer in the bill currently in congress that provided end-of-life counseling. What that means is that the bill would have provided funding for counseling of end-of-life issues, like wills. It's a false claim and I encourage you to read the bill before taking what the health insurance industry and congressional Republicans say as fact. Kill all new borns is also not true and again I encourage you to read the bill.
 
Bobby said:
Why break tradition? People have been reciting the Pledge of Allegiance for hundreds of years and all of the sudden its wrong to say it?



That is not entirely true though, the phrase under god was added to the pledge in 1954, so we've actually only been saying this version for about 55 years.

Same difference
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I'm an agnostic but I don't have any trouble with the pedge for the under God thing. I don't think it should be forced because, quite honestly I don't think the government has the right to run schools in the first place, so what would give them the right to force allegience on children? It's people like you that give aethiests & agnostics a bad name.
 
No use deleting posts that are already here, but lets get this back on topic. If you wish to debate health care, this is not the thread to do it in. This is about the Pledge of Allegiance.



If you wish to post about Health Care, do it in here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1735&p=22200





Now let's get this thread rolling again!
 
1. I'm not American
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2. Where's the separation of church and state in there?

Otherwise it's nice though.
 
I said it throughout high school, every third period, even though I'm agnostic/atheist.



Under God really shouldn't be in there though.
 
God   

–noun

1.

the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

2.

the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of islam.

3.

( lowercase ) one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.
 
From the wiki...



Addition of the words under God

Louis A. Bowman (1872–1959) was the first to initiate the addition of under God to the Pledge. The National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution gave him an Award of Merit as the originator of this idea. He spent his adult life in the Chicago area and was Chaplain of the Illinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. At a meeting on February 12, 1948, Lincoln's Birthday, he led the Society in swearing the Pledge with two words added, under God. He stated that the words came from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Though not all manuscript versions of the Gettysburg Address contain the words under God, all the reporters' transcripts of the speech as delivered do, as perhaps Lincoln may have deviated from his prepared text and inserted the phrase when he said that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom. Bowman repeated his revised version of the Pledge at other meetings.

In 1951, the Knights of Columbus, the world's largest Catholic fraternal service organization, also began including the words under God in the Pledge of Allegiance. In New York City, on April 30, 1951, the Board of Directors of the Knights of Columbus adopted a resolution to amend the text of their Pledge of Allegiance at the opening of each of the meetings of the 800 Fourth Degree Assemblies of the Knights of Columbus by addition of the words under God after the words one nation. Over the next two years, the idea spread throughout Knights of Columbus organizations nationwide. On August 21, 1952, the Supreme Council of the Knights of Columbus at its annual meeting adopted a resolution urging that the change be made universal and copies of this resolution were sent to the President, the Vice President (as Presiding Officer of the Senate) and the Speaker of the House of Representatives. The National Fraternal Congress meeting in Boston on September 24, 1952, adopted a similar resolution upon the recommendation of its president, Supreme Knight Luke E. Hart. Several State Fraternal Congresses acted likewise almost immediately thereafter. This campaign led to several official attempts to prompt Congress to adopt the Knights of Columbus’ policy for the entire nation. These attempts failed.

In 1952, Holger Christian Langmack wrote a letter to President Truman suggesting the inclusion of “under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance. Mr. Langmack was a Danish philosopher and educator who came to America in 1911. He was one of the originators of the Prayer Breakfast and a religious leader in Washington, D.C. President Truman met with him along with several others to discuss the inclusion of “under God” and also “love” just before “liberty and justice”.

At the suggestion of a correspondent, Representative Louis C. Rabaut of Michigan sponsored a resolution to add the words under God to the Pledge in 1953.



Rev. Dr. George MacPherson Docherty (left) and President Eisenhower (second from left) on the morning of February 7, 1954, at the New York Avenue Presbyterian Church

Prior to February 1954, no attempt to get the Pledge officially amended succeeded. The final successful push came from George MacPherson Docherty. Some American presidents honored Lincoln's birthday by attending services at the church Lincoln attended, New York Avenue Presbyterian Church by sitting in Lincoln's pew on the Sunday nearest February 12. On February 7, 1954, with President Eisenhower sitting in Lincoln's pew, the church's pastor, George MacPherson Docherty, delivered a sermon based on the Gettysburg Address titled A New Birth of Freedom. He argued that the nation's might lay not in arms but its spirit and higher purpose. He noted that the Pledge's sentiments could be those of any nation, that there was something missing in the pledge, and that which was missing was the characteristic and definitive factor in the American way of life. He cited Lincoln's words under God as defining words that set the United States apart from other nations.

President Eisenhower, though raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, had been baptized a Presbyterian just a year before. He responded enthusiastically to Docherty in a conversation following the service. Eisenhower acted on his suggestion the next day and on February 8, 1954, Rep. Charles Oakman (R-Mich.), introduced a bill to that effect. Congress passed the necessary legislation and Eisenhower signed the bill into law on Flag Day, June 14, 1954.

The phrase under God was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954, by a Joint Resolution of Congress amending 7 of the Flag Code enacted in 1942.

When Docherty’s sermon was published in 1958, President Eisenhower took the opportunity to write to Dr. Docherty with gratitude for the opportunity to once again read the sermon.
 
+all seeing eye said:
Again, how and why was Under God added?



It explains how and why under God was added..



So I believe it does in fact answer your question.
 
One can chose to either accept an answer, or not.



One can chose to believe, anything, or nothing, or not.



And remember.



If you chose not to decide, you still have made a choice. (Rush- free will)





If you do not wish to say those two words during the pledge, you still have the freedom not to.



You can refrain from saying it all together.



You can turn your back on the flag during the pledge or the national anthem, and stand there and grab your privates, which has been done.



And you are still free to do so here.



Just don't try the same stunt in, say, the PRC, or in DPRK, Saudi Arabia or other such enlightened societies.
 
I wasn't there.



I didn't make the decision.



I don't know why it was done other than what has been written in the article cited and similar others on other pages that you may go read at your leisure such as http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/usconstitution/a/pledgehist.htm





It evidently seemed like a good idea at the time.



If you wish to continue to demand 'why', you are free to do so.
 
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