Prisons are terrible

[Jazzy]

Prison is horrible. It's grossly inhumane. It's a huge waste of money. And there may finally be a way to (mostly) get rid of it.

In any given year, 3.2 percent of those in jail, 4.0 percent of state and federal prisoners, and 9.5 percent of juvenile detainees report having been sexually abused. A 2005 study found that the rate of physical assault was over 18 times higher for male inmates and 27 times higher for females relative to the general population.

The system that sends people to these inhumane pens where they're likely to get beaten and raped is baldly racist. For the same crimes, black men are typically sentenced to 20 percent longer prison stays than white men.

And taxpayers are paying through the nose for all this.

So why do prisons exist? In theory, because we need them. They keep bad guys off the street. They give people a reason to not commit crimes. They provide a place where violent or otherwise threatening people can be rehabilitated.

But prisons and prison guards aren't the only way to accomplish those goals.

House arrest
Today, we have something better than guards: satellites. The advent of GPS location tracking means it's now possible for authorities to be alerted the second a confinee leaves their home. That not just enables swift response in the event of escape; it deters escape by making clear to detainees that they won't get away with it.

Full article

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

 

[DrLeftover]

Judging by the attitudes of some in certain communities, prisons are a great place to go and they can't wait to get there.

Free food and clothing, a free bed at night. Free education and color TV.... better'n home.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

They should be a terrible and miserable place. All prisons should be done like Sheriff Nebulous Arpaio prisons.

 

[Crusader]

Judging by the attitudes of some in certain communities, prisons are a great place to go and they can't wait to get there.

Free food and clothing, a free bed at night. Free education and color TV.... better'n home.

A lot of people reoffend so they can return for those very reasons. Too lazy to make a life for themselves or find it too difficult to get back on their feet. I think more should be done to assist offenders to get back into work.

 

[Bluezone777]

Making prisons terrible doesn't stop people from re offending. If you throw them back on the street with zero opportunities to pay their way other then their life of crime then they will go back to what works for them regardless to how bad the prison is. What else are they to do? Starve? People see felon during the background check and they throw their application into the garbage then these very people doing that ponder just how they can't seem to get out of the cycle of crime and prison? People have this idea that we shouldn't help criminals who done their time but it pays for itself when we do but that means getting off this idea that punishment needs to be forever as in punish them in the jail, make finding a job impossible once released, etc. For most of them, if they are shown a way out besides doing crime then they will take it. Show them no way out then expect them back soon.

 

[Jazzy]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Making prisons terrible doesn't stop people from re offending. If you throw them back on the street with zero opportunities to pay their way other then their life of crime then they will go back to what works for them regardless to how bad the prison is.

Well if prisoners actually served the times they are assigned this would be less of a problem. And its there free choice once they get out to take the same path again. I dont want abuse in prisons but I want it to be a place that is ran with the least amount of comforts as possible. But I have no problem with giving these people a education in the jails to a certain degree.

What else are they to do? Starve?

Possibly.

People see felon during the background check and they throw their application into the garbage then these very people doing that ponder just how they can't seem to get out of the cycle of crime and prison?

They picked their life and now they have to live with it. Do you want to force business owners to hire people they do not want. And what happens when some of these steal or hurt people while employed to the owner who did not want to hire them.

 

[Bluezone777]

It's not about forcing people to do anything but to realize that you can't have it both ways. You can't demand a criminal who has been let out to not go back into crime if you give them no way out of it. If you want criminals to stay out of prison then give them a way out or don't complain when they go right back in for another crime.

I hardly think you know just why everyone did the crimes they do or why? Not everyone is given an easy life and some start out in a hole that they unfortunately never dig themselves out of while others start life on a mountain and act like they did it on their own. While it is true that some throw away a decent home life but there is as many who got stuck in an unfortunate situation not of their own making.

You would be surprised at how fragile the lives we live really are and how a life that seems perfect can go to shit rather quickly. Anyone thinking they are living a life that can't go wrong due to things not in their control is deluding themselves. Most people are skating on thin ice that will crack the moment a surprise job loss or serious health problem comes their way.

It's not about people being allowed to evade responsibility as it's more along the lines of showing compassion for your fellow human being which starts by not thinking you are above all those in those sorts of situations.

As for Jazzy's question, The states that run for profit jails wouldn't want anything cutting into the bottom line hence why they would fight it on that alone. As for the rest of the states, it's an interesting idea if they can illustrate that they can keep track of inmates so they don't break the rules they signed up for by taking on that electronic bracelet. That's the sticking point that most need dealt with before they approve of its use.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

It's not about forcing people to do anything but to realize that you can't have it both ways. You can't demand a criminal who has been let out to not go back into crime if you give them no way out of it. If you want criminals to stay out of prison then give them a way out or don't complain when they go right back in for another crime.

Sure it is. How else would you get employers to hire these people. Now i could support if a ex-convict keeps out of trouble for five or ten years depending on his or her crime that it could be wiped clean.

I hardly think you know just why everyone did the crimes they do or why? Not everyone is given an easy life and some start out in a hole that they unfortunately never dig themselves out of while others start life on a mountain and act like they did it on their own. While it is true that some throw away a decent home life but there is as many who got stuck in an unfortunate situation not of their own making.

I have been homeless and absolutely piss poor broke twice in my life with no food to eat for a week at a time before I became a success and I broke no laws or took any government hand outs. People make their choices in life and they need to pay for it.

You would be surprised at how fragile the lives we live really are and how a life that seems perfect can go to shit rather quickly. Anyone thinking they are living a life that can't go wrong due to things not in their control is deluding themselves. Most people are skating on thin ice that will crack the moment a surprise job loss or serious health problem comes their way.

Believe me I understand how fragile life is.

It's not about people being allowed to evade responsibility as it's more along the lines of showing compassion for your fellow human being which starts by not thinking you are above all those in those sorts of situations.

But that's what it is evading responsibility. I will keep my compassion for the ones who do the right thing everyday while struggling and working there asses off. earn your way back into society with possible suffering and hard work and you will get compassion and a hand up.

As for Jazzy's question, The states that run for profit jails wouldn't want anything cutting into the bottom line hence why they would fight it on that alone. As for the rest of the states, it's an interesting idea if they can illustrate that they can keep track of inmates so they don't break the rules they signed up for by taking on that electronic bracelet. That's the sticking point that most need dealt with before they approve of its use.

KEEP them in jail even if its more expensive.

 

[TommyTooter]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

some 2/3 of the people incarcerated in america are there for smoking or cultivating psychotropic flowers. in fact, the average time served for people sentenced for cultivation is longer than the time served for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batteries and homicides in less than the first degree.

what's wrong with this picture?

while we're at it, how about we throw out the biggest growth industry in america to the mix here? prison privatization has created a demand for prisoners. judges and prosecutors have already been caught taking bribes in exchange for maximizing sentencing and the prison owners are trying to sue states for not keeping them full.

debt to society? more like another cash cow for the rich and ethically challenged.

 

[TommyTooter]

It's not about forcing people to do anything but to realize that you can't have it both ways. You can't demand a criminal who has been let out to not go back into crime if you give them no way out of it. If you want criminals to stay out of prison then give them a way out or don't complain when they go right back in for another crime.

I hardly think you know just why everyone did the crimes they do or why? Not everyone is given an easy life and some start out in a hole that they unfortunately never dig themselves out of while others start life on a mountain and act like they did it on their own. While it is true that some throw away a decent home life but there is as many who got stuck in an unfortunate situation not of their own making.

You would be surprised at how fragile the lives we live really are and how a life that seems perfect can go to shit rather quickly. Anyone thinking they are living a life that can't go wrong due to things not in their control is deluding themselves. Most people are skating on thin ice that will crack the moment a surprise job loss or serious health problem comes their way.

It's not about people being allowed to evade responsibility as it's more along the lines of showing compassion for your fellow human being which starts by not thinking you are above all those in those sorts of situations.

As for Jazzy's question, The states that run for profit jails wouldn't want anything cutting into the bottom line hence why they would fight it on that alone. As for the rest of the states, it's an interesting idea if they can illustrate that they can keep track of inmates so they don't break the rules they signed up for by taking on that electronic bracelet. That's the sticking point that most need dealt with before they approve of its use.

the states are NOT running for profit jails. they are contracting out the operations of prisons to private corporations as a means of cutting their own costs.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

some 2/3 of the people incarcerated in america are there for smoking or cultivating psychotropic flowers. in fact, the average time served for people sentenced for cultivation is longer than the time served for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batteries and homicides in less than the first degree.

what's wrong with this picture?

Then work on changing the laws on what should and should not be illegal. And I may even agree with you on what should not be against the law. Until then they broke the law and jail is where they need to be for there crimes.

while we're at it, how about we throw out the biggest growth industry in america to the mix here? prison privatization has created a demand for prisoners. judges and prosecutors have already been caught taking bribes in exchange for maximizing sentencing and the prison owners are trying to sue states for not keeping them full.

debt to society? more like another cash cow for the rich and ethically challenged.

Catch the people like those judges and prosecutors playing the system and making a profit off of POSSIBLE innocent lives but do not dismantle the entire system that would do far more harm then good.

 

[TommyTooter]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

some 2/3 of the people incarcerated in america are there for smoking or cultivating psychotropic flowers. in fact, the average time served for people sentenced for cultivation is longer than the time served for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batteries and homicides in less than the first degree.

what's wrong with this picture?

Then work on changing the laws on what should and should not be illegal. And I may even agree with you on what should not be against the law. Until then they broke the law and jail is where they need to be for there crimes.

while we're at it, how about we throw out the biggest growth industry in america to the mix here? prison privatization has created a demand for prisoners. judges and prosecutors have already been caught taking bribes in exchange for maximizing sentencing and the prison owners are trying to sue states for not keeping them full.

debt to society? more like another cash cow for the rich and ethically challenged.

Catch the people like those judges and prosecutors playing the system and making a profit off of POSSIBLE innocent lives but do not dismantle the entire system that would do far more harm then good.

sure it will. define 'innocent' and 'crime' justifying incarceration. notice the increase in america's per capita prisoner population between 2007 and 2013.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/fbi-takes-over-investigation-into-idahos-privately-operated-gladiator-school-prison/

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Prisoners/Per-capita

http://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

 

[Gizmo]

I've been in one short term and didn't see anything wrong with it but I get what you are saying as it can be pretty dangerous. It all comes down to what part of the prison you're put in. If you're put in one that doesn't have much guards then you will be dead if you say a word, if you have one that is well managed then you shouldn't have any problems.

With me I did get a bit of crap from others but chose to ignore it and told the guards and it got sorted.

Depends on how long you're in for and most of the time what you've done. As there were a couple of rapists in the unit I was in in the prison who got heaps of crap but with me and the fraud I did no one really thought much of it.

 

[TommyTooter]

I've been in one short term and didn't see anything wrong with it but I get what you are saying as it can be pretty dangerous. It all comes down to what part of the prison you're put in. If you're put in one that doesn't have much guards then you will be dead if you say a word, if you have one that is well managed then you shouldn't have any problems.

With me I did get a bit of crap from others but chose to ignore it and told the guards and it got sorted.

Depends on how long you're in for and most of the time what you've done. As there were a couple of rapists in the unit I was in in the prison who got heaps of crap but with me and the fraud I did no one really thought much of it.

i've never been all the way to the joint, but i've been stuck in the county jail for several weeks a few times waiting trial and because of the political nature of my crimes, they like to stick me in with hard core felony custodies. when it got to talking about what everybody was in for, they'd laugh at me. especially the time i was in a cell with a murderer, heroin distributor and a guy on his 13th burglary beef and all they had me for was failure to appear for walking my dog without a leash.

 

[Gizmo]

I've been in one short term and didn't see anything wrong with it but I get what you are saying as it can be pretty dangerous. It all comes down to what part of the prison you're put in. If you're put in one that doesn't have much guards then you will be dead if you say a word, if you have one that is well managed then you shouldn't have any problems.

With me I did get a bit of crap from others but chose to ignore it and told the guards and it got sorted.

Depends on how long you're in for and most of the time what you've done. As there were a couple of rapists in the unit I was in in the prison who got heaps of crap but with me and the fraud I did no one really thought much of it.

i've never been all the way to the joint, but i've been stuck in the county jail for several weeks a few times waiting trial and because of the political nature of my crimes, they like to stick me in with hard core felony custodies. when it got to talking about what everybody was in for, they'd laugh at me. especially the time i was in a cell with a murderer, heroin distributor and a guy on his 13th burglary beef and all they had me for was failure to appear for walking my dog without a leash.

Lol that is a GOOD one!
Bloody stupid government.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

some 2/3 of the people incarcerated in america are there for smoking or cultivating psychotropic flowers. in fact, the average time served for people sentenced for cultivation is longer than the time served for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batteries and homicides in less than the first degree.

what's wrong with this picture?

Then work on changing the laws on what should and should not be illegal. And I may even agree with you on what should not be against the law. Until then they broke the law and jail is where they need to be for there crimes.

while we're at it, how about we throw out the biggest growth industry in america to the mix here? prison privatization has created a demand for prisoners. judges and prosecutors have already been caught taking bribes in exchange for maximizing sentencing and the prison owners are trying to sue states for not keeping them full.

debt to society? more like another cash cow for the rich and ethically challenged.

Catch the people like those judges and prosecutors playing the system and making a profit off of POSSIBLE innocent lives but do not dismantle the entire system that would do far more harm then good.

sure it will. define 'innocent' and 'crime' justifying incarceration. notice the increase in america's per capita prisoner population between 2007 and 2013.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/fbi-takes-over-investigation-into-idahos-privately-operated-gladiator-school-prison/

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Prisoners/Per-capita

http://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

Sure it will what? You said innocent i am just going off your words so........ And for justifying that would be anything on the books as a crime that would put you in jail. We need the people need to change what justifies putting a person away for a particular crime. Sounds about right when our economy has been tanking during that time.

 

[TommyTooter]

No one has addressed the question:

So, if electronic monitoring can work just as well as prison — and keeps prisoners from being physically and sexually assaulted by guards and other inmates, and saves money, and perhaps even allows some inmates to earn a living while serving time — why not switch?

Anyone?

So how are they paying there debt back to society with a cable t.v. and a nice comfortable bed?

some 2/3 of the people incarcerated in america are there for smoking or cultivating psychotropic flowers. in fact, the average time served for people sentenced for cultivation is longer than the time served for assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated batteries and homicides in less than the first degree.

what's wrong with this picture?

Then work on changing the laws on what should and should not be illegal. And I may even agree with you on what should not be against the law. Until then they broke the law and jail is where they need to be for there crimes.

while we're at it, how about we throw out the biggest growth industry in america to the mix here? prison privatization has created a demand for prisoners. judges and prosecutors have already been caught taking bribes in exchange for maximizing sentencing and the prison owners are trying to sue states for not keeping them full.

debt to society? more like another cash cow for the rich and ethically challenged.

Catch the people like those judges and prosecutors playing the system and making a profit off of POSSIBLE innocent lives but do not dismantle the entire system that would do far more harm then good.

sure it will. define 'innocent' and 'crime' justifying incarceration. notice the increase in america's per capita prisoner population between 2007 and 2013.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/10/fbi-takes-over-investigation-into-idahos-privately-operated-gladiator-school-prison/

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Prisoners/Per-capita

http://www.statista.com/statistics/262962/countries-with-the-most-prisoners-per-100-000-inhabitants/

Sure it will what? You said innocent i am just going off your words so........ And for justifying that would be anything on the books as a crime that would put you in jail. We need the people need to change what justifies putting a person away for a particular crime. Sounds about right when our economy has been tanking during that time.

sure it will was in response to your statement that dismantling the system would do more harm than good.

there are many things that are on state books listed as crimes that are either absurd or a clear intrusion of government into the private affairs of consenting adults.


the system doesn't need dismantling. it needs reformation. the cannabis prohibition needs to be repealed, all drugs decriminalized and regulated properly to shut down the black market which is the actual cause of violent drug-related crime. i posted a link to an analysis of the results of portugal doing that in the victimless crime thread.

prostitution should probably also be legalized and regulated as a means of controlling the spread of disease and inhibiting sex slavers.

 

[DrLeftover]

"ALL drugs decriminalized"?

I can't go that far.