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Separation Of Church & State

Webster

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Those seem pretty good but the Hillsdale College online free courses are the best on the Constitution in my opinion.
 
Separate the hell out of them, in my opinion. Religion has no place in local and federal government.
 
Dee said:
Separate the hell out of them, in my opinion.  Religion has no place in local and federal government.

It has and had done quite well for America up until the left got uppity in the 1980s. I am a atheist but I understand it is the very foundation of our own unique and special Constitution. And now that we ignore our Constitution and misrepresent it's meaning we are seeing Americas rapid decline. Separating government and business should be much larger concern known as huge the problem we have called cronyism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZDXuPQ9ML9E
 
TRUE LIBERTY said:
Dee said:
Separate the hell out of them, in my opinion.  Religion has no place in local and federal government.

It has and had done quite well for America up until the left got uppity in the 1980s. I am a atheist but I understand it is the very foundation of our own unique and special Constitution. And now that we ignore our Constitution and misrepresent it's meaning we are seeing Americas rapid decline. Separating government and business should be much larger concern known as huge the problem we have called cronyism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZDXuPQ9ML9E

I stand firm on my belief that church and state must be separated. This isn't a discussion about the separation of government and business, although I feel different about their involvement in that given how many almost-monopolies are out there trying to regulate the country and buy out our politicians.
 
If you take all religious ideas out of secular institutions, reducing humans to mere apes who are having a rather spectacular bad hair day....

... on what basis do you draw up a moral code and legal system?

Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
 
TRUE LIBERTY said:
Those seem pretty good but the Hillsdale College online free courses are the best on the Constitution in my opinion.

I'll have to look those up sometime, Liberty...thanks. :tup:
 
DrLeftover said:
Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
Just because religion codified it, does not mean it was based on it.
 
Evil Eye said:
DrLeftover said:
Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
Just because religion codified it, does not mean it was based on it.

OK. Fair enough.

Then where did it come from if not a sense that there is a higher authority than your word/will/desire/etc. against mine?

The "common good"? Who decides what is 'good'?
 
DrLeftover said:
Evil Eye said:
DrLeftover said:
Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
Just because religion codified it, does not mean it was based on it.

OK. Fair enough.

Then where did it come from if not a sense that there is a higher authority than your word/will/desire/etc. against mine?

The "common good"? Who decides what is 'good'?

I don't practice any religion and I live my life by the rules of civilization, not because men who are terrified of their god punishing them if they don't made the rules but because I feel they are necessary basics to function fairly in a society.  A lack of religion does not equal a lack of morality.
 
Evil Eye said:
DrLeftover said:
Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
Just because religion codified it, does not mean it was based on it.

The founders are saying they disagree with that statement.

John Adams in a speech to the military in 1798 warned his fellow countrymen stating, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams


Benjamin Rush, Signer of the Declaration of Independence said. "[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.  Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind."  

Noah Webster, author of the first American Speller and the first Dictionary said,   "[T]he Christian religion, in its purity, is the basis, or rather the source of all genuine freedom in government. . . . and I am persuaded that no civil government of a republican form can exist and be durable in which the principles of that religion have not a controlling influence."

Gouverneur Morris, Penman and Signer of the Constitution.  "[F]or avoiding the extremes of despotism or anarchy . . . the only ground of hope must be on the morals of the people. I believe that religion is the only solid base of morals and that morals are the only possible support of free governments. [T]herefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man towards God."

Fisher Ames author of the final wording for the First Amendment wrote,  "[Why] should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a school book? Its morals are pure, its examples captivating and noble. The reverence for the Sacred Book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and probably if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind."

John Jay, Original Chief-Justice of the U. S. Supreme Court ,  "The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts."  

James Wilson, Signer of the Constitution; U. S. Supreme Court Justice, "Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine. . . . Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other."

Noah Webster, author of the first American Speller and the first Dictionary stated, "The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. . . All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible."

Robert Winthrop, Speaker of the U. S. House,  "Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them or by a power without them; either by the Word of God or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or by the bayonet."

George Washington, General of the Revolutionary Army, president of the Constitutional Convention, First President of the United States of America, Father of our nation,  " Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society."

Benjamin Franklin, Signer of the Declaration of Independence "[O]nly a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."

"Whereas true religion and good morals are the only solid foundations of public liberty and happiness . . . it is hereby earnestly recommended to the several States to take the most effectual measures for the encouragement thereof." Continental Congress, 1778

And there are hundreds more they have written saying the exact opposite of your statement.
 
Dee said:
DrLeftover said:
Evil Eye said:
DrLeftover said:
Even the statement "as long as thou doest no harm, do as thy wilt" is based on religion.
Just because religion codified it, does not mean it was based on it.

OK. Fair enough.

Then where did it come from if not a sense that there is a higher authority than your word/will/desire/etc. against mine?

The "common good"? Who decides what is 'good'?

I don't practice any religion and I live my life by the rules of civilization, not because men who are terrified of their god punishing them if they don't made the rules but because I feel they are necessary basics to function fairly in a society.  A lack of religion does not equal a lack of morality.

I do the same and that works for us. But us trying to make a country based on Christianity take it out of schools and government is destroying Americas morality and our foundation. People need something to believe in that has rules and boundaries.
 
Dee said:
TRUE LIBERTY said:
Dee said:
Separate the hell out of them, in my opinion.  Religion has no place in local and federal government.

It has and had done quite well for America up until the left got uppity in the 1980s. I am a atheist but I understand it is the very foundation of our own unique and special Constitution. And now that we ignore our Constitution and misrepresent it's meaning we are seeing Americas rapid decline. Separating government and business should be much larger concern known as huge the problem we have called cronyism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZDXuPQ9ML9E

I stand firm on my belief that church and state must be separated. This isn't a discussion about the separation of government and business, although I feel different about their involvement in that given how many almost-monopolies are out there trying to regulate the country and buy out our politicians.

Well the founders did not want them in our federal laws but they in no way intended it to be separated in the way that is happening now in government.
 
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