Speak Free or Die!

[Webster]

i can nick pick all u.s. presidents and find that they "attacked" either free speech or something else that's important to the foundation of america as well... your point being?

The point in this instance being that Mrldii asked a question and it was answered. On the broader point, though, there've been numerous instances of presidents going well beyond their constitutional bounds (John Adams w/the Alien & Sedition Acts, Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, Wilson as mentioned above, etc.).

 

[Webster]

I'm not finding any reputable citations to prove the aforementioned "lock up thousands" under the Sedition Act of 1918, though I did find information regarding our forefathers locking up dissidents, also during [a] wartime.

Wartime law is a tricky, tricky subject.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sedition+Act+of+1918

And therein lies the rub; in times of war, most of the rules get chucked right out the window.

 

[mrldii]

And therein lies the rub; in times of war, most of the rules get chucked right out the window.

Oh.

Then, what exactly, are you two bitching about, now?...since it's now been proven that a "leftist president" AND several of our esteemed and irrefutable forefathering presidents have done the exact same thing, but it's only "not *right*" when some one does it?

 

[Webster]

Oh.

Then, what exactly, are you two bitching about, now?...since it's now been proven that a "leftist president" AND several of our esteemed and irrefutable forefathering presidents have done the exact same thing, but it's only "not *right*" when some one does it?

*scratches head in thought* Uhhh...ummmm... *scratches head in thought once more* ...uhh, never mind...:surrender:

 

[Sinon]

Just making the point that is so often overlooked in these discussions:

That you DO NOT have the RIGHT to say anything you want, any time you want, any where you want.

That also carries over to the written word, and now, the Net.

Further example: "tweeting a bomb threat".

I was always under the impression that you do have the right to do those things. You'll just be punished accordingly if you do them.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Woodrow Wilson and the sedition Act of 1918

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

The point in this instance being that Mrldii asked a question and it was answered. On the broader point, though, there've been numerous instances of presidents going well beyond their constitutional bounds (John Adams w/the Alien & Sedition Acts, Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War, Wilson as mentioned above, etc.).

Only after the Civil War did we have leftist presidents that locked up thousands for political opinion or because of race. You may find others making a bad political decision but not in the numbers like Wilson and FDR. Where John Adams devoted his entire life for freedom one horrible decision does not define what he helped created.

 

[mrldii]

Only after the Civil War did we have leftist presidents that locked up thousands for political opinion or because of race.

This is a factually incorrect statement.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sedition+Act+of+1918

No doubt you will assert it one more time, as apparently, when rewriting history it is necessary to repeat erroneous statements a third time to make them stick.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

This is a factually incorrect statement.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sedition+Act+of+1918

No doubt you will assert it one more time, as apparently, when rewriting history it is necessary to repeat erroneous statements a third time to make them stick.

No it is fact even if it hurts. So yes let me repeat the fact for a third time. Only after the Civil War did we have leftist presidents that locked up thousands for political opinion or because of race.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

My apologies Americas first Fascist president arrested tens of thousands not thousands.

Wilson harshly suppressed dissent and resistance among citizens and the press.
At Wilson’s urging, a Sedition Act (not unlike the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 ) forbade Americans from criticizing their own government in a time of war. Citizens could not “utter, print, write or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language” about the government or the military. The Postmaster General was given the authority to revoke the mailing privileges of those who disobeyed. About 75 periodicals were were shut down by the government in this way and many others were given warnings.

In the fashion of a police state, the Department of Justice arrested tens of thousands of individuals without just cause. One was not safe even within the walls of one’s own home to criticize the Wilson administration. A letter to federal attorneys and marshals said that citizens had nothing to fear as long as they “Obey the law; keep your mouth shut.” In fact, the Justice Department created the precursor to the Gestapo called the American Protective League. Its job was to spy on fellow citizens and turn in “seditious” persons or draft dodgers. In September of 1918 in NYC, the APL rounded up about 50,000 people. This doesn’t even include the infamous Palmer Raids (named after Wilson’s attorney general) that occurred after the war.

https://conservativecolloquium.word...n-americas-worst-and-first-fascist-president/

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

you'd like to think that republicans and conservatives aren't progressives, which you're clearly wrong, because you're a progressive in one way or the other as well...

Since you are not really reading anything I write because I call out progressive republicans all the time. Now if a conservative is acting in that fashion well he was never a conservative in the first place. And the ones I do support are not acting in that manner.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Oh.

Then, what exactly, are you two bitching about, now?...since it's now been proven that a "leftist president" AND several of our esteemed and irrefutable forefathering presidents have done the exact same thing, but it's only "not *right*" when some one does it?

The difference is the bad ones have designed there entire lives around such horrible acts in everything they do. Where others who made a single stupid decision it does not define the greatness they created. Comparing a piece of crap like Wilson and FDR who despised everything about the constitution cannot even be remotely compared to the founders and what they did and accomplished.

 

[mrldii]

No it is fact even if it hurts. So yes let me repeat the fact for a third time. Only after the Civil War did we have leftist presidents that locked up thousands for political opinion or because of race.

The Civil War ended in 1865; Woodrow Wilson became POTUS in 1912. "The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798", a set of 4 laws, was under John Adams' reign; former president George Washington supported it.

"The Sedition Act made it a high misdemeanor, punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both, for citizens or aliens (1) to oppose the execution of federal laws; (2) to prevent a federal officer from performing his or her duties; (3) to aid 'any insurrection, riot, Unlawful Assembly, or combination'; or (4) to make any defamatory statement about the federal government or the president (1 Stat. 596)."


Factually-speaking, 1798 occurred before 1865 and 1912.

You're welcome. runk:

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

The Civil War ended in 1865; Woodrow Wilson became POTUS in 1912. "The Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798", a set of 4 laws, was under John Adams' reign; former president George Washington supported it.

"The Sedition Act made it a high misdemeanor, punishable by fine, imprisonment, or both, for citizens or aliens (1) to oppose the execution of federal laws; (2) to prevent a federal officer from performing his or her duties; (3) to aid 'any insurrection, riot, Unlawful Assembly, or combination'; or (4) to make any defamatory statement about the federal government or the president (1 Stat. 596)."


Factually-speaking, 1798 occurred before 1865 and 1912.

You're welcome. runk:

You clearly did not understand my post specially since I did bring up John Adams. I said after the civil war not because it did not happen in the past even though not nearly in the horrific manner as Wilson and FDR put it into practice. But said after the civil because it is when all people in America were free. Thanks to conservative thinking founders who designed a constitution that would eventually make it happen. And conservative president who finally made it happen named Lincoln.

We had a nation just newly created and barely hanging on. We had one man who just devoted so many years of blood and treasure fighting to create a free nation. We had another man who also devoted so many years away from his country and loved ones to get other countries to help us with arms, troops and money. Two men who gave up everything for those years to create a nation. I can understand that kind of mistake when fear may of hit it could be undone. Where on the other hand Wilson and FDR devoted there entire lives to suppressing peoples right by the power of a government. So it is no surprise they used it heavy handed and never apologized for it ever.

 

[mrldii]

@ Tru Lib:

The POTUS in charge in 1798 reacted to the real and/or imagined perils during their wartime, just as the POTUS in charge during WWI did. Ironically, both Acts were rescinded within 2 years of being enacted.


You specifically indicated that 'it had never happened before the Civil War'. This was a factually incorrect statement, which had been proven TO your own lying eyes to be factually incorrect, yet you repeated it, again, and still wish to believe it TO be true. People who embrace known fallacies as fact are dangerous, as there is nothing to stop their wild imaginings.



You aren't planning on running for POTUS, are you?

 

[+paradox]

I was always under the impression that you do have the right to do those things. You'll just be punished accordingly if you do them.

having the right to do something and free will are two different things...

 

[+paradox]

The difference is the bad ones have designed there entire lives around such horrible acts in everything they do. Where others who made a single stupid decision it does not define the greatness they created. Comparing a piece of crap like Wilson and FDR who despised everything about the constitution cannot even be remotely compared to the founders and what they did and accomplished.

what did the founders do and accomplished? since you were there and have the knowledge to speak of such people...

how knowledgeable do you really think you are about such subjects?

do you know what the world and the underground was back then?

do you know who the founders were and were associated with?

 

[+paradox]

@ Tru Lib:

The POTUS in charge in 1798 reacted to the real and/or imagined perils during their wartime, just as the POTUS in charge during WWI did. Ironically, both Acts were rescinded within 2 years of being enacted.


You specifically indicated that 'it had never happened before the Civil War'. This was a factually incorrect statement, which had been proven TO your own lying eyes to be factually incorrect, yet you repeated it, again, and still wish to believe it TO be true. People who embrace known fallacies as fact are dangerous, as there is nothing to stop their wild imaginings.



You aren't planning on running for POTUS, are you?

i surely hope not...

 

[Webster]

i surely hope not...

Liberty for President?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

@ Tru Lib:

The POTUS in charge in 1798 reacted to the real and/or imagined perils during their wartime, just as the POTUS in charge during WWI did. Ironically, both Acts were rescinded within 2 years of being enacted.


You specifically indicated that 'it had never happened before the Civil War'. This was a factually incorrect statement, which had been proven TO your own lying eyes to be factually incorrect, yet you repeated it, again, and still wish to believe it TO be true. People who embrace known fallacies as fact are dangerous, as there is nothing to stop their wild imaginings.

No. Let me repeat again.

You clearly did not understand my post specially since I did bring up John Adams. I said after the civil war not because it did not happen in the past even though not nearly in the horrific manner as Wilson and FDR put it into practice. But said after the civil because it is when all people in America were free. Thanks to conservative thinking founders who designed a constitution that would eventually make it happen. And conservative president who finally made it happen named Lincoln.

We had a nation just newly created and barely hanging on. We had one man who just devoted so many years of blood and treasure fighting to create a free nation. We had another man who also devoted so many years away from his country and loved ones to get other countries to help us with arms, troops and money. Two men who gave up everything for those years to create a nation. I can understand that kind of mistake when fear may of hit it could be undone. Where on the other hand Wilson and FDR devoted there entire lives to suppressing peoples right by the power of a government. So it is no surprise they used it heavy handed and never apologized for it ever.