"Too Religious"

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Again act like a adult and not a little child and show for at least one topic you can keep from making it personal.

look at you, doing the same thing that you're complaining that i did to you...

good job...  

the difference is i'm man enough to not cry about it...

if you want to put this back on topic, go find my post that replied to your post and make a comment on it...

No I am calling you out everytime you can't keep it on the debate. Which is quite often.

 

[+paradox]

Again act like a adult and not a little child and show for at least one topic you can keep from making it personal.

look at you, doing the same thing that you're complaining that i did to you...

good job...  

the difference is i'm man enough to not cry about it...

if you want to put this back on topic, go find my post that replied to your post and make a comment on it...

No I am calling you out everytime you can't keep it on the debate. Which is quite often.

you just said what i said...

you're the one that loves to change the subject on debates...

you calling me out yet in the same post you do the same thing to me, sounds like a hypocrite to me... if you think that's me being personal then whatever, i just call it like i see it...

now, if you really wanted this debate to get back on topic you would have not posted what you just did and replied to my post to you, since you didn't, obviously you're the one that is keeping this discussion off topic...
------------------------------------------------------------------

We should include being to atheist in that group also.
i didn't know atheism is a religion...

Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots.
since religion dominated most of the civilized humans and it's worlds, i'm going to bet that this statement is grossly inaccurate...

But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.
break what record?  

------------------------------------------------------------------

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

I am almost afraid to ask about this one..

i'll do it then...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Again act like a adult and not a little child and show for at least one topic you can keep from making it personal.

look at you, doing the same thing that you're complaining that i did to you...

good job...  

the difference is i'm man enough to not cry about it...

if you want to put this back on topic, go find my post that replied to your post and make a comment on it...

No I am calling you out everytime you can't keep it on the debate. Which is quite often.

you just said what i said...

you're the one that loves to change the subject on debates...

you calling me out yet in the same post you do the same thing to me, sounds like a hypocrite to me... if you think that's me being personal then whatever, i just call it like i see it...

now, if you really wanted this debate to get back on topic you would have not posted what you just did and replied to my post to you, since you didn't, obviously you're the one that is keeping this discussion off topic...

------------------------------------------------------------------

We should include being to atheist in that group also.
i didn't know atheism is a religion...

Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots.
since religion dominated most of the civilized humans and it's worlds, i'm going to bet that this statement is grossly inaccurate...

But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.
break what record?  

------------------------------------------------------------------

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

I am almost afraid to ask about this one..

i'll do it then...

So that would be no then. You are not going to act like a adult and keep it on subject. Got it.

 

[+paradox]

then why reply to me if you're not going to reply to my post?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

then why reply to me if you're not going to reply to my post?

Because you ask the same questions over and over again that have been answered and proven everytime certain subjects are debated You disagree with. So I choose to ignore some of the repetitiveness between us.

 

[Jazzy]

Attention please: This thread has been totally derailed by turning it into a troll and flame fest. Either this thread gets back on topic and the flaming and trolling stops, or I will shut it down.

 

[+paradox]

then why reply to me if you're not going to reply to my post?

Because you ask the same questions over and over again that have been answered and proven everytime certain subjects are debated You disagree with. So I choose to ignore some of the repetitiveness between us.

so instead of answering me you choose to stay off topic when i tried many times to get you on topic?

i'll try it again...

We should include being to atheist in that group also.
i didn't know atheism is a religion...

Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots.
since religion dominated most of the civilized humans and it's worlds, i'm going to bet that this statement is grossly inaccurate...

But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.
break what record?  

care to explain why you think atheism is a religion?

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

As fanatical as it has become in the last 100 years I will put it in that category. Along with the global warming nuts that would love to wipe out most of humanity under the guise of saving the planet.

In the past hundred years athiestic communisn have been responsible for more then 240 million deaths.


It is pretty self explanatory.

 

[+paradox]

very interesting...

As fanatical as it has become in the last 100 years I will put it in that category.

Huh? This makes no sense. Just because atheists see themselves "apart from the crowd," this makes atheism a religion? Absurd.

At every point in the above letter, there is an attempt to show places where religions and atheism have something in common. I've either pointed out that there isn't anything in common - that the alleged commonality is shared by other organizations or beliefs that clearly aren't religions - or, finally, that the alleged commonality isn't a necessary part of atheism. The problem is, the author managed to pick things that aren't necessary parts to religion. A religion doesn't have to have leaders, an eschatology, defenders, etc. to be a religion. Just because something does have those things doesn't mean that it is a religion. If someone disagrees, they're going to have to do a better job of supporting this position than just listing them - they're going to have to explain, in depth, just how each of those points are sufficient and necessary.

Perhaps it would also help to examine what a religion is. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader grey areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :

1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein.
8. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
9. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
10. A social group bound together by the above.

To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion?

In addition, it should be noted that theism itself does not qualify as a religion based upon the above - and for most of the same reasons that atheism does not qualify. When you stop to think about it, theism - the mere belief in god(s) - does not automatically entail almost any of the beliefs or practices listed in either the above letter or the above definition. In order to have a religion, you need quite a bit more than either simple belief or disbelief. This fact is clearly reflected in the real world, because we find theism which exists outside of religion and religion which exists without theism.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

Along with the global warming nuts that would love to wipe out most of humanity under the guise of saving the planet.
i don't understand this, so now people that want to protect the earth want to "wipe out most of humanity"? i think you're confusing people that actually care for this planet to the evil elites that want nothing but to kill everyone and the planet earth for power and money...

In the past hundred years athiestic communisn have been responsible for more then 240 million deaths.
care to explain how you got that number?

It is pretty self explanatory.
not really!

it's fun reading your posts @liberty...  

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

very interesting...

As fanatical as it has become in the last 100 years I will put it in that category.

Huh? This makes no sense. Just because atheists see themselves "apart from the crowd," this makes atheism a religion? Absurd.


Makes perfect sense. They are acting like a radical religion that wants to control what you believe and nothing else. Over 200 million dead people are dead because of it.



At every point in the above letter, there is an attempt to show places where religions and atheism have something in common. I've either pointed out that there isn't anything in common - that the alleged commonality is shared by other organizations or beliefs that clearly aren't religions - or, finally, that the alleged commonality isn't a necessary part of atheism. The problem is, the author managed to pick things that aren't necessary parts to religion. A religion doesn't have to have leaders, an eschatology, defenders, etc. to be a religion. Just because something does have those things doesn't mean that it is a religion. If someone disagrees, they're going to have to do a better job of supporting this position than just listing them - they're going to have to explain, in depth, just how each of those points are sufficient and necessary.

Perhaps it would also help to examine what a religion is. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader grey areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :

1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein.
8. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
9. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
10. A social group bound together by the above.

To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion?

In addition, it should be noted that theism itself does not qualify as a religion based upon the above - and for most of the same reasons that atheism does not qualify. When you stop to think about it, theism - the mere belief in god(s) - does not automatically entail almost any of the beliefs or practices listed in either the above letter or the above definition. In order to have a religion, you need quite a bit more than either simple belief or disbelief. This fact is clearly reflected in the real world, because we find theism which exists outside of religion and religion which exists without theism.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

What a load of crap that was.


Along with the global warming nuts that would love to wipe out most of humanity under the guise of saving the planet.
i don't understand this, so now people that want to protect the earth want to "wipe out most of humanity"? i think you're confusing people that actually care for this planet to the evil elites that want nothing but to kill everyone and the planet earth for power and money...






No I am pretty clear what I mean am confusing nothing.


One example.



Bill Gates in his own words - Vaccines are "Best Way" to Depopulate Planet

In this clip, you will see one of the richest men in the world - Bill Gates - expound on how we must all consent to a 'kill the humans' strategy, to 'save the planet' from the carbon dioxide we make. See his lips move. I'm not kidding. Gates implies at least THREE AND A HALF BILLION people must go. Dead. Gone.

https://archive.org/details/WipeOutHumans-BillGates-VaccinesArebestWayToDepopulatePlanet





In the past hundred years athiestic communisn have been responsible for more then 240 million deaths.
care to explain how you got that number?







Hitler killed 17million and could argue since he started WW2 it could be 72 million. Some believe he was a believer in god but I think he used religion to gain his power. So if you believe he was a believer in god we can skip this one and find plenty more.


Lenin killed 5 million.

Stalin killed 60 million.

Pol Pot killed 2 to 3 million.

Mao killed 78 million.

Kim II Sung killed 2 million

And we have plenty more of these loving atheists that could be found








It is pretty self explanatory.
not really!

It really is.


it's fun reading your posts @liberty...  



Yours are entertaining also.

 

[Kirito]

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

Care to give any examples of people killing in the name of atheism?

 

[+paradox]

very interesting...

As fanatical as it has become in the last 100 years I will put it in that category.

Huh? This makes no sense. Just because atheists see themselves "apart from the crowd," this makes atheism a religion? Absurd.


Makes perfect sense. They are acting like a radical religion that wants to control what you believe and nothing else. Over 200 million dead people are dead because of it.



At every point in the above letter, there is an attempt to show places where religions and atheism have something in common. I've either pointed out that there isn't anything in common - that the alleged commonality is shared by other organizations or beliefs that clearly aren't religions - or, finally, that the alleged commonality isn't a necessary part of atheism. The problem is, the author managed to pick things that aren't necessary parts to religion. A religion doesn't have to have leaders, an eschatology, defenders, etc. to be a religion. Just because something does have those things doesn't mean that it is a religion. If someone disagrees, they're going to have to do a better job of supporting this position than just listing them - they're going to have to explain, in depth, just how each of those points are sufficient and necessary.

Perhaps it would also help to examine what a religion is. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, in its article on Religion, lists some characteristics of religions. The more markers that are present in a belief system, the more "religious like" it is. Because it allows for broader grey areas in the concept of religion, I prefer this over more simplistic definitions we can find in basic dictionaries. Read the list and see how atheism fares :

1. Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
2. A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
3. Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
4. A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
5. Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
6. Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
7. A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
8. A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
9. A social group bound together by the above.

To try and claim that atheism is a religion requires, it should be pretty obvious from the above, a radical ad hoc redefinition in what it is that "being a religion" is supposed to mean, resulting in a radically equivocal use of the new term-- if atheism is a religion, then just what isn't a religion?

In addition, it should be noted that theism itself does not qualify as a religion based upon the above - and for most of the same reasons that atheism does not qualify. When you stop to think about it, theism - the mere belief in god(s) - does not automatically entail almost any of the beliefs or practices listed in either the above letter or the above definition. In order to have a religion, you need quite a bit more than either simple belief or disbelief. This fact is clearly reflected in the real world, because we find theism which exists outside of religion and religion which exists without theism.

http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_rel_religion.htm

What a load of crap that was.
again, going against truth... saying that atheism is a religion is a load of crap...


Along with the global warming nuts that would love to wipe out most of humanity under the guise of saving the planet.
i don't understand this, so now people that want to protect the earth want to "wipe out most of humanity"? i think you're confusing people that actually care for this planet to the evil elites that want nothing but to kill everyone and the planet earth for power and money...





No I am pretty clear what I mean am confusing nothing.


One example.



Bill Gates in his own words - Vaccines are "Best Way" to Depopulate Planet

In this clip, you will see one of the richest men in the world - Bill Gates - expound on how we must all consent to a 'kill the humans' strategy, to 'save the planet' from the carbon dioxide we make. See his lips move. I'm not kidding. Gates implies at least THREE AND A HALF BILLION people must go. Dead. Gone.

https://archive.org/details/WipeOutHumans-BillGates-VaccinesArebestWayToDepopulatePlane

you switched from global warming nuts that want to kill the planet to a wealthy guy and vaccines? :s



In the past hundred years athiestic communisn have been responsible for more then 240 million deaths.
care to explain how you got that number?







Hitler killed 17million and could argue since he started WW2 it could be 72 million. Some believe he was a believer in god but I think he used religion to gain his power. So if you believe he was a believer in god we can skip this one and find plenty more.
hitler wasn't an atheist and you can't just reward deaths from a war to the person that started it...


Lenin killed 5 million.
had faith... never claimed to be an atheist...
http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/12264851095

Stalin killed 60 million.
had faith... was spiritual and denounced evolution... never claimed to be an atheist...
http://exposingreligionblog.tumblr.com/post/12264851095

Pol Pot killed 2 to 3 million.
Refuting The Myth That Hitler, Stalin And Pol Pot Were Atheists

Mao killed 78 million.
Pol Pot and Mao Zedong were not Atheists.

Kim II Sung killed 2 million
had faith and believed in god but not much of a religious person, although was raised christian...

And we have plenty more of these loving atheists that could be found
care to name a few others? but, anyways, it doesn't matter if a human has faith or not because humans kill and they will kill no matter what they believe in or the lack of believing... likewise, not all religious people kill and not all non-religious people kill...







It is pretty self explanatory.
not really!

It really is.
not really, because you claim that atheism is a religion when clearly it's not, then try to make people out to be atheists when clearly they weren't...

it's fun reading your posts @liberty...  



Yours are entertaining also.
bravo! another great post...  

 

[wirelessguru1]

Their religion is NOT atheism but rather global warming and/or evolution!

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

Care to give any examples of people killing in the name of atheism?

I did above. Most of those dictators banned religion.

 

[Dee]

Lol, I find it hard to believe atheists killed more in the face of no god considering how wide-spread religion was and still is throughout the course of history. That's not to say they haven't killed people for lack of religion, but the majority I've heard about and learned is mainly in the face of some religion.

 

[+paradox]

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

Care to give any examples of people killing in the name of atheism?

I did above. Most of those dictators banned religion.

i answered above...

and just because dictators banned religion doesn't automatically make them atheist...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Vladimir Lenin wrote regarding atheism and communism: "A Marxist must be a materialist, i. e., an enemy of religion, but a dialectical materialist, i. e., one who treats the struggle against religion not in an abstract way, not on the basis of remote, purely theoretical, never varying preaching, but in a concrete way, on the basis of the class struggle which is going on in practice and is educating the masses more and better than anything else could."






At a very early age, while still a pupil in the ecclesiastical school, Comrade Stalin developed a critical mind and revolutionary sentiments. He began to read Darwin and became an atheist.
G. Glurdjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin's, relates:
"I began to speak of God, Joseph heard me out, and after a moment's silence, said:
"'You know, they are fooling us, there is no God. . . .'
"I was astonished at these words, I had never heard anything like it before.
"'How can you say such things, Soso?' I exclaimed.
"'I'll lend you a book to read; it will show you that the world and all living things are quite different from what you imagine, and all this talk about God is sheer nonsense,' Joseph said.
"'What book is that?' I enquired.
"'Darwin. You must read it,' Joseph impressed on me"





Like all Communists Pol Pot was an atheist so religion was banned. People caught practicing Buddhism were executed and Buddhist temples were desecrated. Family relationships were banned (on the grounds that parents exploited their children). Furthermore the smallest infringement of the rules resulted in execution. Although they were half starved people caught foraging for food were executed. People were also executed for being lazy. Needless to say anyone who complained was executed.
http://www.localhistories.org/polpot.html




China’s Communist Party Reaffirms Marxism, Maoism, Atheism
The Communist Party of China (CPC) is letting its members know that the party’s official adherence to militant atheism has not changed; Party members are not allowed to be Christians, or to hold any other religious beliefs. That is the clear message sent by a top Party official in an editorial published on November 14 in the Global Times, the international version of People’s Daily, the official newspaper and mouthpiece of the CPC.

The editorial, written by Zhou Weiqun, chairman of the Committee on Ethnic and Religious Affairs of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, blasted Chinese academics who suggest that Communist Party members can also adhere to any religion. This prohibition against religion has been a “consistently upheld principle” since Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic of China, declared Zhou. “It’s impossible to have another choice besides the dialectical materialist worldview.”
http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/asia/item/19567-china-s-communist-party-reaffirms-marxism-maoism-atheism



Mao Tse Tung said that religion is the poison for the masses.







My God is none other than the people. Only the popular masses are omniscient and omnipotent and almighty on earth. Therefore my lifetime motto is: "The people are my God."
Kim Il-sung


Kim attended school and received a typical Chinese education, though as a young teenager he rejected the family’s religious beliefs and instead became interested in left-wing political ideas. In 1927, 15-year-old Kim was imprisoned for his political views by the anti-communist Kuomintang government. Three years later he was released, before returning to Korea to join resistance groups there who were fighting against Japanese occupation. According to ‘official’ North Korean histories of Kim Il-Sung, he became an important resistance leader, commanding a regiment of several hundred men and earning a place on a Japanese ‘hit list’. During World War II Kim crossed into the USSR and enlisted in the Red Army, serving as a captain.
http://alphahistory.com/coldwar/kim-il-sung/
------------------------------------------------------------------

We should include being to atheist in that group also. Since atheist leaders have killed far more then religious zealots. But the middle east these days is determined to break that record.

Care to give any examples of people killing in the name of atheism?

I did above. Most of those dictators banned religion.

i answered above...

and just because dictators banned religion doesn't automatically makes them atheist...

Thats not answers that is lies.

 

[+paradox]

in no way those are lies...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

in no way those are lies...

Full 100% crap.

 

[+paradox]

in no way those are lies...

Full 100% crap.

not even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it was crap...