Why didn't police taze him?

[Jazzy]

Why didn't police taze him? Slain Cleveland boy's father, Anonymous ask

In the wake of the police fatal shooting of an Ohio 12-year-old boy who was brandishing an air pistol, the child's father is asking why police couldn't have resorted to using lesser force – a taser – and the online hacking consortium Anonymous is echoing the call.

Why not taze him?" Gregory Henderson, Tamir Rice's father, posed to Northeast Ohio Media Group. "You shot him twice, not once, and at the end of the day you all don't shoot for the legs, you shoot for the upper body."

"Why did he not use a Taser on this child? Shooting him in cold blood was not necessary with these non-lethal options available," a man behind a Guy Fawkes mask says in a YouTube video that appears to come from the group.

The subject of excessive - or reasonable -  force by police has become a hot topic in America in the wake of the August fatal shooting by Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.

The man who called Cleveland police said the gun was "probably fake" and that the "guy" waving it was scaring people, The New York Daily News reported.

Cleveland Deputy Chief Edward Tomba says he doesn't know whether a 911 dispatcher told responding officers that the gun was "probably fake."

Dispatched police said they were responding to reports of a "male with a gun threatening," and Tamir did not follow orders from the officers to keep his hands up, according to Northeast Ohio Media Group.  Tomba says surveillance video of the shooting is "very clear" about what occurred.

Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association president Jeff Follmer said taking a Taser out when it is believed a suspect is armed puts the officer at risk.

"We're not trained to shoot people in the leg," Follmer said. "If we pull that trigger, we feel our lives are in danger."

Anonymous anticipated this response: "The excuse 'we feared for our lives' is ludicrous when the victim was only 12 years old and only had possession of a toy airsoft gun."

Cleveland police's Use of Deadly Force Investigation Team is investigating the shooting, and evidence will be turned over to a grand jury to decide if it was justified.

In your opinion, was this shooting justified? Why / Why not?

 

[DrLeftover]

To me it sounds an awful lot like "suicide by cop".

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

You know, when cops are faced with what looks EXACTLY like a potentially lethal situation, they are trained not to wound the danger, but kill it on the spot, if possible.

This is yet another situation where I have to look at the parents of the dead boy.  Why did he have a toy gun with the orange tip removed or covered? Why didn't his parents know he was running around in the streets with what looked like a real weapon?

Many years ago, I was picking up my Son and a couple of his friends for a sleepover and a day at the park.  They were all about 14 years old.  As I was sitting in my running car, waiting for the last boy to come out, I saw a red dot on my steering wheel, exactly like you see when cops have their weapons trained on a person.  I froze and fortunately, immediately heard the boy I was there to pick up laughing his ass off.  I got out of the car, took the toy from the boy and set him in the back seat with the other 2  boys.  My Son was in the front seat with me.

I turned off the radio and started driving.  Then I told the boy how lucky he was that it wasn't my (now ex) husband driving.  If it had been my ex, it is very likely the boy could have been shot.  For the first time in his life, my Son saw me go OFF THE AIR.  I drove and explained very clearly, emphatically, how easy it would be for that boy to have been killed, either by my ex, or by police.

That was the first time I had a carful of teenage boys and utter silence at the same time.  After I got done tearing the kid a new ass, he showed complete remorse and I had no doubt he understood how gravely dangerous his little trick was.  He did not get his toy back.

It is very unfortunate that the boy in this story didn't have parents smart enough to know what kind of toys he was playing with and what he was up to with his modified toy that turned out to be his last mistake.  I can not blame the cops for shooting to kill.  That is how they are trained.  With the tip of the toy colored black, those guns that kids can buy absolutely look completely real.  This child's death is on his own parent's hands.

Exactly.

This is exactly why you do not give kids in todays world a toy gun. Thats why my father never allowed me to have a toy gun. If they treat toy guns as toys how do you think they will treat a real one.

 

[identityissues8]

Um. So, the stories that were released in the beginning of this saga were that he raised the gun to police - and now, in the wake of the release of CCTV footage it's being said he was 'reaching into his waistband to pull the toy gun'.

Telling, ain't it?

The footage does not appear show Tamir holding or raising a gun at the time of the confrontation which lasted a matter of moments.

Police insist the boy had been reaching into his waistband for what appeared to be a firearm.

http://www.news.com.au/world/two-seconds-is-all-it-took-for-cleveland-police-to-determine-the-gun-12-year-old-tamir-had-was-real-they-were-wrong/story-fndir2ev-1227136546239

This story is adding up less and less the longer it goes on.

"Suicide by cop" my ass, this is just another incident of a cop killing a minority.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Um. So, the stories that were released in the beginning of this saga were that he raised the gun to police - and now, in the wake of the release of CCTV footage it's being said he was 'reaching into his waistband to pull the toy gun'.

Telling, ain't it?

The footage does not appear show Tamir holding or raising a gun at the time of the confrontation which lasted a matter of moments.

Police insist the boy had been reaching into his waistband for what appeared to be a firearm.

http://www.news.com.au/world/two-seconds-is-all-it-took-for-cleveland-police-to-determine-the-gun-12-year-old-tamir-had-was-real-they-were-wrong/story-fndir2ev-1227136546239

This story is adding up less and less the longer it goes on.

"Suicide by cop" my ass, this is just another incident of a cop killing a minority.

First have you ever been to Cleveland? It is a mini version of Chicago Americas little Beirut. It is a very dangerous city for police.

Second people were calling 911 saying a person was swinging around a gun that MAY be a toy. Where a cop has to act as if it is real to protect there own life.

Third the cop was so close he only had seconds to react if he thought his life was in danger. And watching it several times it does appear he was either reaching or had his hand on the gun that was on his waist.

Just another minority shooting? I mean that kind sounds like the cops just wake up and say if I could just shoot me a minority child my life will be fulfilled.

 

[DrLeftover]

People forget that tasers Do Not Work on every body every time.

 

[Sinon]

People forget that tasers Do Not Work on every body every time.

Yup. A thick sweater can render a taser useless. If they tried to taze the kid and it was a real gun, there would be a very real chance that instead of the kid dying, two cops and potentially bystanders would be wounded and/or killed.

 

[Jazzy]

From another article:
The police officer who fatally shot a 12-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun fired within 1½ to 2 seconds of pulling up in his cruiser, police said Wednesday. During those few moments, he ordered the youngster three times to put up his hands, they said.

The city released a surveillance video that shows the shooting of Tamir Rice, who was carrying an airsoft gun that shoots non-lethal plastic pellets.

Much of the footage shows what appears to be a bored kid alone in a park on an unseasonably warm November afternoon. Tamir is seen pacing, occasionally extending his right arm with what appears to be a gun in his hand, talking on a cellphone and sitting at a picnic table with his head resting on his arms.

Video and rest of article

After watching the video: In your opinion, was this shooting justified? Why / Why not?

 

[DrLeftover]

If you watch the video before the shooting, he was pointing it at people and acting like a 'gangster'. Behavior he obviously learned in Sunday School class the week before.


If he had dropped the gun when he saw the police car (Never mind waiting to be told to), if he had dropped it when the cops pulled up, we would not be having this cheerful discussion now.