Cross-site punishments

[~ True Legend ~]

Would you ever ban/sanction a member for behaviour on other forums? Is this something you've ever done or something you've considered doing?

 

[Nebulous]

I don't believe in banning a member here for something they did on another forum.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

I don't believe in banning a member here for something they did on another forum.

Even if they go around posting illegal content or they're a known criminal?
I LOVE challenging debates
I hope your answer will be there are exceptions for everything

 

[Nebulous]

Even if they go around posting illegal content or they're a known criminal?
I LOVE challenging debates
I hope your answer will be there are exceptions for everything

Sounds like you are for punishing people for what they did elsewhere. Good for you.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Sounds like you are for punishing people for what they did elsewhere. Good for you.

I'm not suggesting that. Just love challenging ppl in debates. I'm open to your opinions of course

 

[Nebulous]

I'm not suggesting that. Just love challenging ppl in debates. I'm open to your opinions of course

Is this a debate?

Anyway how do I know for sure they did something illegal elsewhere? Because of hearsay? Rumors? I'll wait and see if they commit those criminal acts here so I can witness them for myself and act accordingly afterwards. If they never do anything wrong here then there is no reason to punish them.

Also I have encountered forum owners who have a grudge against a particular member so they will follow them from forum to forum trying to get them banned everywhere by making stuff up about them. I don't play those games.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Is this a debate?

Anyway how do I know for sure they did something illegal elsewhere? Because of hearsay? Rumors? I'll wait and see if they commit those criminal acts here so I can witness them for myself and act accordingly afterwards. If they never do anything wrong here then there is no reason to punish them.

Also I have encountered forum owners who have a grudge against a particular member so they will follow them from forum to forum trying to get them banned everywhere by making stuff up about them. I don't play those games.

Makes sense. Personally? I don't believe in cancel culture. But if they did something news-worthy that would put young ppl at risk I'd ban them to protect my community. If they're just being an arse, then nah.
And yeah just a debate out of curiosity - something I've seen. Not asking for advice as I've never had this situation arise... no worries It's something I've witnessed though so I was just curious on thoughts.

 

[Black Angel]

It depends on what they did.. if it is stupid shit like spamming and trolling then no..

But if it is something more serious like cracking the admin or staff accounts then yes, and I have..

Way back when my brother ran a lightly Sonic-based forum based on his flash series, there was a group of script kiddies that was going around and cracking forums and deleting the content after changing the admin and staff details and then redirecting the site to another site that downloaded malware to your system..

My brother and I spoke to a lot of admins about it, both those that were hit and were at risk and we pooled our data which included the ips, usernames and emails of the culprit and we thusly banned them.. this guy wasn't some mastermind though.. he basically used a known exploit and old school social engineering to get into the admin account.. such as the admin actually using his main email for their admin account, and then having security questions so easy, that the "cracker" was easily able to get the answers from the topic questions on the forum.

 

[Crys]

Absolutely would ban without a heartbeat and not even a second thought because behavior on one forum does not change especially if you have to keep warning a person about said behavior. I have done this before. User was a tyrant on roleplay forums I was/am member of. Their behavior is just straight up awful enough to get them banned: attacking members, wanting to write about "relations" between people and animals...

Funny enough they always used the same username, always. When I saw the username wanting to join, I accepted then immediately banned them. People that truly change don't join group after group exhibiting the same toxic behavior that got them in trouble to begin with. So yeah, I have no problem doing this.

 

[PGen98]

I typically wait for them to do something before I take any punitive action.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Absolutely would ban without a heartbeat and not even a second thought because behavior on one forum does not change especially if you have to keep warning a person about said behavior. I have done this before. User was a tyrant on roleplay forums I was/am member of. Their behavior is just straight up awful enough to get them banned: attacking members, wanting to write about "relations" between people and animals...

Funny enough they always used the same username, always. When I saw the username wanting to join, I accepted then immediately banned them. People that truly change don't join group after group exhibiting the same toxic behavior that got them in trouble to begin with. So yeah, I have no problem doing this.

Relations between humans and animals? What does that mean?

Just a thought - how do you know that despite many warnings, it didn’t take a ban for them to finally learn their lesson?
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It depends on what they did.. if it is stupid shit like spamming and trolling then no..

But if it is something more serious like cracking the admin or staff accounts then yes, and I have..

Way back when my brother ran a lightly Sonic-based forum based on his flash series, there was a group of script kiddies that was going around and cracking forums and deleting the content after changing the admin and staff details and then redirecting the site to another site that downloaded malware to your system..

My brother and I spoke to a lot of admins about it, both those that were hit and were at risk and we pooled our data which included the ips, usernames and emails of the culprit and we thusly banned them.. this guy wasn't some mastermind though.. he basically used a known exploit and old school social engineering to get into the admin account.. such as the admin actually using his main email for their admin account, and then having security questions so easy, that the "cracker" was easily able to get the answers from the topic questions on the forum.

Wow! How was this even allowed to happen? The admins especially should be much more vigilant about strong passwords.

How was malware even allowed to get onto the forum? Board software clearly isn’t secure enough when the scripts run?

 

[Crys]

Relations between humans and animals? What does that mean?

Just a thought - how do you know that despite many warnings, it didn’t take a ban for them to finally learn their lesson?

It means this person enjoyed writing about explicit stuff between humans and animals.

Well, let me see. Case and point with the person I did mention in my last post, that lesson was obviously not learned the first time if they went to other groups doing the same thing. I only know what I see from problematic users, mainly on roleplay communities, who get banned from one site then hop to another doing/acting the same way they did to get band. They usually don't change their usernames either.

Of course not everyone is the same. I'm sure there are a few who do. Maybe. If they do, good on them.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

I typically wait for them to do something before I take any punitive action.

Same. I get that ppl behave differently in different situations, may have been at a bad period in their life and we may also not know the full story.

Would you still treat them with that same clean slate if you notice them repeating the same bad behaviours exhibited at other forums you frequent, though ?
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It means this person enjoyed writing about explicit stuff between humans and animals.

Well, let me see. Case and point with the person I did mention in my last post, that lesson was obviously not learned the first time if they went to other groups doing the same thing. I only know what I see from problematic users, mainly on roleplay communities, who get banned from one site then hop to another doing/acting the same way they did to get band. They usually don't change their usernames either.

Of course not everyone is the same. I'm sure there are a few who do. Maybe. If they do, good on them.

It makes sense, you shouldn’t have to babysit anyone. Have you considered ppl can behave differently in different situations though?

 

[Kyng]

I think there are scenarios where it's appropriate.

For example: let's say there are two members involved in an argument on Forum A. Later on, this escalates, and leads to drama on Forum B (where these two people are also active members). I think it's fine for them to be punished on both forums, even if rules were only broken on Forum B, because it's not solely a "Forum B" issue: it's an issue from Forum A that spilled over onto Forum B.

Or, if someone's going around various forums, and trolling immediately after signing up - then, I think it's fine for other forums to pre-emptively ban that person before they can cause similar trouble.

With that being said, I wouldn't punish members for drama that took place wholly off-site, that had nothing to do with my own board.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

I think there are scenarios where it's appropriate.

For example: let's say there are two members involved in an argument on Forum A. Later on, this escalates, and leads to drama on Forum B (where these two people are also active members). I think it's fine for them to be punished on both forums, even if rules were only broken on Forum B, because it's not solely a "Forum B" issue: it's an issue from Forum A that spilled over onto Forum B.

Or, if someone's going around various forums, and trolling immediately after signing up - then, I think it's fine for other forums to pre-emptively ban that person before they can cause similar trouble.

With that being said, I wouldn't punish members for drama that took place wholly off-site, that had nothing to do with my own board.

Interesting, thanks for sharing! Only issue is where do you then draw the line? Ppl can behave in different situations. I personally let the management of the site itself deal with the issue.

However I agree to an extent, in that you don’t want members not explicitly breaking rules but still towing the line and poisoning discussions

 

[Crys]

It makes sense, you shouldn’t have to babysit anyone. Have you considered ppl can behave differently in different situations though?

Of course. Everyone is different. Situations are different. But when it comes to my personal forum, my job as owner and administrator is to make certain that none of that asinine behavior hits the board or members who legitimately are there to have a good experience. If that means putting down that ban, I will do so without hesitation. Other boards are free to do whatever they want, I have no control over that. Though if I see a familiar user being toxic in more than one place, if they somehow join my site, it won't be for long.

 

[~ True Legend ~]

Of course. Everyone is different. Situations are different. But when it comes to my personal forum, my job as owner and administrator is to make certain that none of that asinine behavior hits the board or members who legitimately are there to have a good experience. If that means putting down that ban, I will do so without hesitation. Other boards are free to do whatever they want, I have no control over that. Though if I see a familiar user being toxic in more than one place, if they somehow join my site, it won't be for long.

Yeah, that’s understandable. We all have different views and I respect yours 😊👍

Have you ever encountered a situation where a known former troublemaker has proven to have evolved and matured over a long period and been an asset to the forum? Would you consider still letting them in if a long time had passed? Or do your opinions generally remain static?

 

[Crys]

Yeah, that’s understandable. We all have different views and I respect yours 😊👍

Have you ever encountered a situation where a known former troublemaker has proven to have evolved and matured over a long period and been an asset to the forum? Would you consider still letting them in if a long time had passed? Or do your opinions generally remain static?

That’s the wonderful thing about these discussions. Everyone can have their different views and be heard without being attacked for them. Thank you for your kindness in this discussion by the way.

To answer the first part of your question, no. Never. Not to say there aren’t people who change because there are. Those I’ve encountered have been nothing but problematic everywhere they’ve gone.

Now, the next part of your question. Let’s say if one of those people actually made an effort to change, that I see this on another site? Hm. Letting them in my site? I’m not sure that I would. On one hand, it would be awesome to see their proven effort but on the other, I’m of the opinion you only get so many chances before it’s over. Yeah, probably not. Like when I see someone acting toxic online, I just don’t want to deal with it or engage. That’s how I feel about it. I think I would always feel in a way if some of the behavior shown by them was along the lines of racism, homophobia, etc.

 

[Black Angel]

Relations between humans and animals? What does that mean?

Just a thought - how do you know that despite many warnings, it didn’t take a ban for them to finally learn their lesson?
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Wow! How was this even allowed to happen? The admins especially should be much more vigilant about strong passwords.

How was malware even allowed to get onto the forum? Board software clearly isn’t secure enough when the scripts run?

The software in question was an old version of IPB 1.3.1 Final, and the host was InvisionFree.. the software being so old, and tons of exploits that were often patched by the staff.

It was one of the last free unrestricted versions of IPB before IPS changed the terms going forward.. (whether it was legal or not was subject to debate, even until this very day..) But IPS seemingly knew of IF and other Free IPB hosts that used it so it seemed ok by them as long as people didnt try going to them for support.

As for passwords, you have got to realize that people will constantly do stupid things.. even with the best advice and information guiding them NOT to.

One of the first things I learned when I started using computers which was about 34 years ago, was about the importance of picking a safe password.. since we had to log into our machines and onto our profiles in order to use them in class.

You would be surprised as to how many people in my class forgot that lesson.. even after we had a 6 month Sim City project in our class had to build and protect our cities from disaster.. those who had easy passwords had more damage to their cities than those who do not.. everyone was taught this lesson from Day 1, and yet, it was still more than 80% of the class that lost their cities over an easy password.

And the same has been true for the entirety of the time I've been using computers and running forums. If you see a warning saying not to use "123" as a password, chances are, most people will continue to do so.. even if they have been hit before. This doesn't just apply to recreational things either.. but everywhere.

Even and especially in government offices.. I have heard horror stories about entire networks and infrastructures taken down because a few of the admins used "123123" as their password even when they were told not to, and in some cases more than once. (These are people who obviously shouldn't be given a second chance, as they can't be trusted and their presence is a liability.) My husband works in IT and even he has to deal with this and moreso on a serious level because now we are talking about big corporations, hospitals, law firms and government, offices being subject to the same exact thing.

But guess what, people will still use these same bad passwords, and some apparently use the articles put out against using easy passwords, after a breach, to do just that and they STILL continue using the same password.

As for the malware, back then it was done 2 ways.. either an HTML redirect bounced you to another page that had the malware embedded, or with a code on board itself.. we had access to the IPB Wrappers and some of the backend for theming and codes, to use on our boards, but none of the core files.. this is what I meant when I said that these guys were just some kids that hung around exploit sites and made themselves out to be something that they weren't. As a habit from my days on dial up with AOL, I make it a habit to leave JS disabled, and so in that case, although I was still redirected to the site with the malware embed, it didn't actually do so on my system because JS was disabled. This was also the case when the malware script was embedded on the index page when the site it originally pointed to was taken down.

So while IF was able to keep these guys from doing any real damage to the software by patching the exploits, they could not protect the admins themselves from their own stupidity or that of their staff..

Fortunately for them, IF took backups of everyone's boards, but how much it would cost to restore it depended on how big your forum was.. I think it if was like less than 10k posts, then it would be free but if it was like the size of this forum then you would have to pay..

And a lot of the affected boards were huge.. and even after they had paid to be restored, some admins would still use the same passwords..

 

[~ True Legend ~]

That’s the wonderful thing about these discussions. Everyone can have their different views and be heard without being attacked for them. Thank you for your kindness in this discussion by the way.

To answer the first part of your question, no. Never. Not to say there aren’t people who change because there are. Those I’ve encountered have been nothing but problematic everywhere they’ve gone.

Now, the next part of your question. Let’s say if one of those people actually made an effort to change, that I see this on another site? Hm. Letting them in my site? I’m not sure that I would. On one hand, it would be awesome to see their proven effort but on the other, I’m of the opinion you only get so many chances before it’s over. Yeah, probably not. Like when I see someone acting toxic online, I just don’t want to deal with it or engage. That’s how I feel about it. I think I would always feel in a way if some of the behavior shown by them was along the lines of racism, homophobia, etc.

Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm personally against cancel culture, but each to their own of course. What would you do in a situation where a member decides to join your forum with a different username and then confided in you much later on about past behaviour having proven themselves at YOUR site ?