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Guns
- Thread starter Nebulous
- Start date
I own a few guns that are put away. I wish and hope that I'll never ever have to use them to defend my life. It is a tool that I'd rather have and not need then need it and not have it. I used to be extremely anti gun until I got intimidated and brutalized in my own home. That really made me change my views.
I have guns. PPD they call it; Personal Protection Device on the concealed weapons permits.
Having a loaded gun on hand (no children here) is like an insurance policy IMO; hope I never need to shoot anyone, but I can & will if need be.
There's definitely an out-of-control problem; but I don't think the inanimate tool is the root of the problem.....it's the idiot nutjobs that are the problem.
Having a loaded gun on hand (no children here) is like an insurance policy IMO; hope I never need to shoot anyone, but I can & will if need be.
There's definitely an out-of-control problem; but I don't think the inanimate tool is the root of the problem.....it's the idiot nutjobs that are the problem.
I'm completely anti-gun. I've looked at statistics, and places like the UK (where guns are illegal) and South Korea, have almost no gun crime, and no mass shootings. Think about it.
There's a mass shooting in the US every other week, but no one cares because of the grotesquely outdated "right to bear arms" bullshit. 400 years ago, there weren't little kids being massacred. Or 30 high school students murdered by assault rifles. It's time to fucking change the laws. I'm sick of gun violence. Guns do nothing to help our society.
There's a mass shooting in the US every other week, but no one cares because of the grotesquely outdated "right to bear arms" bullshit. 400 years ago, there weren't little kids being massacred. Or 30 high school students murdered by assault rifles. It's time to fucking change the laws. I'm sick of gun violence. Guns do nothing to help our society.
Guns are inherently deadly as their main purpose is to severely injure or kill. In the hands of irrational, emotional, ignorant human beings...well, need I say more? I'm not against them, but I am for mandatory regulation, education/training, and safe storage of them.
This is the problem with guns - negligent parents allow kids to get a handle on them by not keeping them out of sight. And by keeping them within easy access, a bad actor could break into the house and take the gun and threaten, denying the family's means to defend themselves.
6 year-old boy shoots a teacher. A 6 year old boy!
Glad the mother is being held accountable!
6 year-old boy shoots a teacher. A 6 year old boy!
Boy, 6, boasted about shooting Virginia teacher Abigail Zwerner
New court documents show the pupil confessed to the attack and outline how he took his mother's gun.
www.bbc.co.uk
Glad the mother is being held accountable!
I'm not a fan of guns, but I have plenty of friends who both have and carry them and I'm ok with that. It's their choice. On friend works for a branch of law enforcement and wants to both purchase and train me to use a gun, because he's seen what can happen to someone just for being trans, and I'm not really interested. He's offering me something that's not exactly cheap, I appreciate the gesture, and respect that he knows what he's doing as a certified weapons instructor and member of law enforcement, but...eh...also doesn't help I have issues with suicidal ideation, that's probably not the ideal person to give a gun to...
I hate guns. I never felt powerful when holding one, let alone disposing of it. In fact, it was quite the opposite, it felt dangerous and it was not a feeling I enjoyed.
I feel more comfortable when I know that they are in the hands of someone who has been trained to use one, and not someone who has to have it on them while in line at a Dunkin Donuts..
That said though, I have realized that it might not be a bad idea to have one, or learn how to use one for my own protection. You can't really rely on the cops, and truthfully, the SCOTUS has ruled at least 3x that the cops have no legal obligation to protect the citizens. And it has already been proven that they don't stop crime either. In fact community based solutions were more of a crime deterrent than the cops were. And from what I have personally seen and heard, they are the ones that are doing the crimes themselves. There is a reason why it's said that the police are the largest gang in the country because they do the same things that the other gangs do, they just get paid on the books for it.
So, if you can't trust or rely on the cops for protection, then who can you trust?
Even though I hate guns and have lost family to gun violence, with the crazy ass dudes out there, it just makes sense to be strapped..
I feel more comfortable when I know that they are in the hands of someone who has been trained to use one, and not someone who has to have it on them while in line at a Dunkin Donuts..
That said though, I have realized that it might not be a bad idea to have one, or learn how to use one for my own protection. You can't really rely on the cops, and truthfully, the SCOTUS has ruled at least 3x that the cops have no legal obligation to protect the citizens. And it has already been proven that they don't stop crime either. In fact community based solutions were more of a crime deterrent than the cops were. And from what I have personally seen and heard, they are the ones that are doing the crimes themselves. There is a reason why it's said that the police are the largest gang in the country because they do the same things that the other gangs do, they just get paid on the books for it.
So, if you can't trust or rely on the cops for protection, then who can you trust?
Even though I hate guns and have lost family to gun violence, with the crazy ass dudes out there, it just makes sense to be strapped..
I am so conflicted when it comes to guns, as they do both - kill people and protect them, sometimes killing someone in the process of protecting. I have always played FPS games, so I'm kind of used to them in that sense, but I've never held or shot one. I think guns are interesting and can be really cool, but they can also enable horrible things. I'm not naive enough to think all the bad things that happen are the result of guns, because it comes down to humans being assholes, and bad people will find ways to do bad things. However, it must also be acknowledged that, as I eluded to above, guns can make a situation so much worse and enable someone to do damages they otherwise wouldn't.
The reason that the "if not a gun, a knife" argument is invalid is because It takes more time and effort to stab people. You cannot stab 3 people instantaneously by yourself, and usually when someone attempts multiple stabbings, a Samaritan will step in because it's easier to disarm a knife from someone. Mass casualty school events wouldn't be a thing if guns didn't exist. Guns are the enabler in these situations.
Coming at this from another angle, my uncle lost his wife a while back. She was his world. Towards the end of her life, she struggled moving. He built a ramp at their house for her wheel chair. He custom made running boards on his truck so she could more easily get in and out. Since her death, he has done nothing with his life. Retired, no friends, no social life - all he has is his guns and going to the gun range. My mom and I both worry someday he'll take his life with said gun. As someone who has considered suicide before, if I had a gun readily available I'd have used it. I can only imagine my uncle has had the same thoughts. and my point with mentioning this, death surrounds guns. Nothing ever good comes from them. Even if someone is killed in the commission of a crime, that is still a death.
Humans are a big part of the problem with guns, but so are guns themselves. UK banned guns and their citizens are perfectly fine without them. Meanwhile, Americans - my uncle included - all say "we have a right to own firearms in the event the government order 66's us!" Totally healthy and rational take, live your life owning guns because you think the government will turn on you.
The reason that the "if not a gun, a knife" argument is invalid is because It takes more time and effort to stab people. You cannot stab 3 people instantaneously by yourself, and usually when someone attempts multiple stabbings, a Samaritan will step in because it's easier to disarm a knife from someone. Mass casualty school events wouldn't be a thing if guns didn't exist. Guns are the enabler in these situations.
Coming at this from another angle, my uncle lost his wife a while back. She was his world. Towards the end of her life, she struggled moving. He built a ramp at their house for her wheel chair. He custom made running boards on his truck so she could more easily get in and out. Since her death, he has done nothing with his life. Retired, no friends, no social life - all he has is his guns and going to the gun range. My mom and I both worry someday he'll take his life with said gun. As someone who has considered suicide before, if I had a gun readily available I'd have used it. I can only imagine my uncle has had the same thoughts. and my point with mentioning this, death surrounds guns. Nothing ever good comes from them. Even if someone is killed in the commission of a crime, that is still a death.
Humans are a big part of the problem with guns, but so are guns themselves. UK banned guns and their citizens are perfectly fine without them. Meanwhile, Americans - my uncle included - all say "we have a right to own firearms in the event the government order 66's us!" Totally healthy and rational take, live your life owning guns because you think the government will turn on you.
Although it’s harder to obtain a gun in the UK, I feel that the police are just as untrustworthy. It all starts from the culture within the force.Tons of complaints of harassment and misogyny not being taken seriously.
Not to mention them targeting the victims that come forward themselves.
Many SA victims stay silent for this reason and the ones that do come forward end up being re-victimized by the cops all over again.
And don't EVEN get me started on rampant CSA within the police force, let alone the NYPD.
I have since realized that the reason there are so many cops in my family is because they joined the force for not just trying to help people, but also to protect their own families as well. And they are well aware of how fucked up the police are themselves.
It is almost as if the bad guys out there all joined the force enmasse since 9/11 and this is why the police abuse and brutality incidents have been increasing, despite crime decreasing over the last 20 years.
But then again, its probably why the saying "idle hands are the Devil's workshop" exists.
Many SA victims stay silent for this reason and the ones that do come forward end up being re-victimized by the cops all over again.
And don't EVEN get me started on rampant CSA within the police force, let alone the NYPD.
I have since realized that the reason there are so many cops in my family is because they joined the force for not just trying to help people, but also to protect their own families as well. And they are well aware of how fucked up the police are themselves.
It is almost as if the bad guys out there all joined the force enmasse since 9/11 and this is why the police abuse and brutality incidents have been increasing, despite crime decreasing over the last 20 years.
But then again, its probably why the saying "idle hands are the Devil's workshop" exists.
Yeah it’s really sad about rape victims. I don’t think the attitude of some members of the public “If you’re telling the truth, you wouldn’t wait to bring a claim” helps either. What people don’t realise is the trauma such victims have undergone and the therapy to work on their mental health is their first priority.
Also, you may think you’d handle it a certain way, but how would you know until/unless you experience such yourself? And, we should bear in mind we all react to and process traumatic events differently, and we need to be respectful of these differences.
What differences am I talking about? Some may quickly want to being legal claims to ensure the perpetrator is held accountable. This is how they cope to restore their sense of justice. While others may need time to process their trauma.
The same reasons I don’t believe in time limits for bringing legal claims for any kinda physical abuse; I am aware this has sparked such controversy I constantly hear about in the news. @Black Angel what are your views on time limits ?
If you're talking deadly....
www.iihs.org
Fatality Facts 2021: State by state
A summary of fatality statistics about state by state compiled by IIHS from 2021 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.
www.iihs.org
I 100% agree. There should NOT be a statute of limitations in cases of rape, or physical abuse just as there isn't with murder. The damage done to the victims is lifelong and as such, so should be the time limit on the consequences.
Putting a clock on consequences, only gives cover to the perpetrators. It is why whenever there is an accusation, the first thing the alleged perp says is "why come forward now?" It is never a denial, but always a question of timing.
And I forgot to address this earlier when you mentioned about cops that don't take rape or domestic violence seriously, you are absolutely right, they don't and that is because birds of a feather stick together. What I mean is, the reason they don't take these things seriously is because they do the same things themselves.. and they protect each other courtesy of the blue wall. There have been cases where the rape victims ended up being sexually harassed or raped by the same cop that they reported their initial rape to. This is just one example, but there are many, and much like other abuses of authority, they either intentionally don't report them, or they underreport them just like with brutality and excessive and/or lethal force.
And just recently there was a major scandal involving West Virginia police that had hidden cameras placed in the academy to spy on women where they had to change out of their clothes. Many of the victims were minors.
And regarding domestic violence, this 2014 Atlantic article states that dv is worse in law enforcement than it is in the NFL.. which is saying something, because in the NFL, (not that I am defending them) those cases involved CTE at some point. Which wouldn't be the case with the police. Former GA SEN candidate Herschel Walker is a prime example.
Police Have a Much Bigger Domestic-Abuse Problem Than the NFL Does
Research suggests that family violence is two to four times higher in the law-enforcement community than in the general population. So where's the public outrage?
www.theatlantic.com
This has been the reason that many of the cops in my family left the force after they did their 20 years. As a cop, you are expected to stay silent for your own protection if you know first-hand how fucked up your fellow officers, sergeants and detectives are. The reason the bad cops aren't held accountable is because they go after the good cops who try to do so. This is just a meme regarding the most notable cops that lost their jobs and more because they did the right thing. But they are in no way the only ones who did so.
I am not sure about what happened with the rest of the cops in the pic, but I do know that Cariole Horne just recently got her pension reinstated because she was fired for having stopping her partner from being someone to death. And Joe Crystal settled with the city of Baltimore for reporting on his fellow officers for assaulting their victim. And as for the other 4, I dont remember if they got justice either, but another notable example would be Frank Serpico who was fired for exposing the corruption within the NYPD, and they even made a movie about it with Al Pacino.
Daniel Holtzclaw is an example of a bad cop protected by his fellow officers and police culture. He raped 13 women and children, and he admitted during his interrogation that he targetted Black women and children w/ records because he knew that if they ever came forward, that no one would believe them. He looked into his victims records and if they had a drug or prostitution history, then he would target them.
Ex-Oklahoma City Cop Spending 263 Years in Prison For Rape and His Accusers Share Their Stories
Police found thirteen women who accused Daniel Holtzclaw of sexual assault.
abcnews.go.com
What ended up getting him caught was that he raped a grandmother who had no record, and she came forward. And when she did, they still kept him on the streets until more victims came forward, they previously dismissed the other complaints against him until the grandmother came forward. He was later convicted on 13 of the 36 charges against him and sentenced to 263 years.
How the Daniel Holtzclaw Jury Decided to Send the Ex-Oklahoma City Police Officer to Prison for 263 Years
Police say Daniel Holtzclaw targeted his victims while patrolling neighborhoods.
abcnews.go.com
At trial, his jury was all White, containing 8 men and 4 women (I have asked the cops and detectives in my family why there is usually a majority of White people on the jury for police brutality cases, and they said, that the reason they do this, is because White men are not only more likely to trust the cops (due to being treated with more respect than anyone else) but that they are most likely to identify with them on some level, and when they do so, they are more likely to beat the charges. This was the same reasoning in the 60s in prior when you had similar cases like Emmitt Till and the White men who lynched him.) In other words, one hand washes the other.
But thankfully, that wasn't the case this time.
There have been cases of cops that basically kidnapped their victims off the street under the guise of "police business" and then they end up raping their victim and doing everything they can to not only destroy the evidence, but then have their support groups bully the victim and then they end up getting off scot-free.
This teen vogue article says that this is extremely common.. it also mentions in near-explicit detail of the case I mentioned above.
We Need to Talk About Sexual Assault by Police
Police are perpetrators more often than we talk about.
This incident occured at the same precinct that responded to my neighborhood's calls, not that they did much when they got there. I once called the cops at around 11p.m. to report my neighbor being beaten by her husband, to the point there he was slamming her head against the wall and threatening to kill her and their children, and the police didn't show up until 7 a.m. in certain neighborhoods like my old one, the cops just wait long enough for you to die before they show up and they have done this with the shootings that took place as well.
And there are documentaries about the police corruption as well. One of them was about the corruption within the 75th Precinct during the 1980s. I think it was called the 75 or something like that.
Anyway, you are right that it is the culture, abusers often surround themselves with those who do the same things they do, I think it is more of an insurance policy to keep each other in check, or from "growing a conscience" and coming forward rather than comeraderie. Basically it's a "if I go down, then I'm taking everyone down with me" sorta thing.
For example, Jeffrey Epstein kept a record of his fellow abusers like Trump, and many celebs, politicians, monarchs, etc. And even if the people he associated with weren't all abusers, they were still very well aware of what he was doing and as long as he kept flying them out, to his island, they didn't care. Even the FBI knew this for years and did nothing. These people knew in the same way that the fellow cops in Holtzclaw's precinct knew. And the unions are just as bad because they do the same. In Opa Locka, Florida, there was a cop who was fired 7 times, and his union made sure that he kept getting reinstated.
At any rate, this is why the "bad apple" narrative regarding the police always bothered me. This is designed to shut down legitimate discourse regarding police reform, brutality and the inherent racial biases (that stem from their origins as Slave Patrol in this country) and radicalization within the force. And because the average person doesn't really know anything about these things, let alone the history, anymore than they know about their rights, and so when this is given as a response to valid concerns about the police, they don't pushback on it.
Even though, they know deep down that a bad apple will literally spoil the bunch. (Seriously.. apples disperse gases that accelerate ripening and causes the rest of the apples to quickly spoil as a result.. it is why its recommended to place them with green bananas if you want them to ripen faster..)
So, literally keeping a bad cop who abuses their power is a bad look on the entire force, and the profession itself and it is all the more reason for that cop to be fired in order to retain the trust of the people. But, because most people don't know anything about the police anymore than they know the rest of the "bad apple" saying, they just nod along, even though deep down they themselves would go and throw out that rotten apple they saw in their fruit bowl to prevent it from spoiling the good apples near by.
For some reason, it just never clicks with them.
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There's a statue of limitations on rape because otherwise, my ex from 23 years ago could decide to falsely say I raped her and there's zero evidence. Then comes the "#believewomen", and now I'm falsely convicted all because of a womanly movement. When it comes to false rape accusations, it always comes down to the men having to prove they didn't do it, not the woman having to prove it happened. and this is wrong! In the mean time, the man falsely accused has lost everything in his life because of some vindictive piece of shit. If you are going to accuse someone, it is on you, the victim, to prove it. Basing cases off of "the accused has to prove they didn't do it" sets a horrible precedence and opens the door for so much bullshit.
Also, this thread has gone completely off the rails. Statue of limitations and ACAB don't necessarily go in a thread about guns.
True true. Though @Nebulous mentioned to me there’s no rule against going OT in threads, no matter how badly the thread is derailed
Thanks for sharing your views @Reddington and @Black Angel - will reply to that later
1. I agree that there are issues with the #believewomen movement. I was immediately suspicious the moment that the movement's orginal focus had changed. Especially since any movement started by marginalized groups to call attention to the issues that they faced that are usually ignored, has always been co-opted by non-marginalized groups and then recentered on them and the next thing you know, the newly revamped organization, no longer includes the very group that the original movement was originally intended for. This is why I support Black Lives Matter the movement, but not the organization.. because there is a difference.
Gloria Steinem was a Trojan horse and FBI informant in the 60s and was integral in uniting the White feminists with the Civil Rights Movement and today's equivalent would be Alyssa Milano with Tarana Burke's Me Too movement. Soon after Milano got involved, after originally and erroneously being credited with starting the movement (before someone else mentioned Burke..) Tarana Burke sold out similar to the founders of Black Lives Matter, and in return, she got her millions, and a mansion, Harvey Weinstein's Hollywood victims and Larry Nasser's Olympic victims got their justice, and the BIPOC women who originally supported both Tarana Burke and her Me Too movement got shafted.. and yet another one of our movements has been undermined.. again.
BLM did get some awesome street dancers for the protests and marches for the events protesting and meant for increasing awareness against police brutality and excessive and lethal force used against Black people. But even this hurts the movement because the racist idiots out there will say "see, Black people aren't oppressed, they are twerking at a another protest for some "thug" killed by police."
Which is why we are still fighting for the same rights today that my ancestors did in the 60s.. in the same way that BIPOC women (LGBT+ and not) are still more likely to go missing and are never found.
Then again, history does repeat itself.
2. I am not sure what you are trying to say regarding your ex, but it seems personal. At any rate, if you always respected the wishes of others and got clarification regarding consent then you've nothing to worry about. I am not saying his about you personally, but in general. Your argument for statute of limitations on accusations is interesting because it is incredibly similar to those that are often credibly accused but want to escape consequences of their actions.. such as entitled men that refuse to take no for an answer but still doesn't care and constantly pressures the woman about it until she relents and gives in.
That doesn't mean she wanted it anymore than if the man had a gun to her head when he asked her. In that case, then the accusation is valid because it still involves that person not taking no for an answer. These are also the same guys that come equipped with roofies just in case.
I completely understand your point about false accusations and agree to a degree, they have and can be deadly and this is why I don't believe in that particular hashtag, I say this as a Black woman, that is from a group who has been historically affected by false accusations. I say this because of the violent history behind them and of course by the time the evidence has exonerated the accused, it is too late, and there is no justice, this is something that affects all of us, regardless of whether or not we are related to the falsely accused.. then again, trauma does do that to you.
However, it is still within the best of everyone's interest including the falsely accused to not have a time limit on a claims, because if it means that even if your ex did come forward 23 years later, and you can prove your innocence, then you deserve to go after her too for falsely accusing you. In fact, I'd personally hope you'd bring the full force of the law with you and win, should you decide to countersue your ex for defamation after you have successfully been exonerated of the original accusation. I say this because rape, is the kind of accusation where, even if you have been proven innocent in the court of law, the damage has already been done in the court of public opinion.
People will still treat you with suspicion and your innocence wouldn't matter, even though it should.. especially if they were previously your friend or worse, related to you. I mean some people still believe that Dick Rowland raped Sarah Page even though not only had he said it wasn't true, but so did Sarah Page and the OKC sherriff's dept.
So even then, the truth didnt matter, but guess what, unlike the victims of the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre and their descendants, and the others that occured like it, you will at least be able to get justice against your false accuser, unlike the descendants of these massacres because of those who levied the false accusations that started them. I say this because even false accusations, hurt real victims (be they those who were actually raped, or those falsely accused) too in the same way that bad cops and the unions and precincts that support them, hurt the good cops out there and the entire profession itself.
3. Regarding ACAB, et. al,
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions here. No where in any of my posts, past and present, have I stated ACAB and as far as I can tell, neither has True Legend's or anyone else's. I couldn't say that if I wanted to because I know for a fact that that isn't true. This is because, I have not encountered all cops on the planet to make that distinction, and most are cops out there, including the good ones mentioned in this thread, are those who don't meet the criteria, that that moniker is typically used for.
Can you point out where specifically I said that? Otherwise, you will have just inserted words into my posts and falsely accused me of something I never said nor implied in any of my posts to begin with.
As far as I can tell, up until this post, I have never specifically mentioned it nor implied it. I only posted supporting arguements about what True Legend said, and gave her some insight into why she wasn't wrong when she said what she did about police culture and some facts about why it is. A lot of their silence is because of fear of retaliation and not that they supported it. I then posted examples of the real cops who got fired for doing the right thing in these situations.
The thread isn't derailed at all. I only responded to True Legend specifically, just as I am now to you, and as she did to me specifically in the same thread we both responded in. And I did so, because I wanted to and didn't want to leave her hanging. I don't recall either of us specifically addressing you.
Lastly, you might want to check out the name of the forum. It is implied an eventuality.. lol if you don't believe me, check out the thrift store thread. We ran the gamut of topics there.. and in other topics and guess what, Nebulous, the owner, participated too and continued it.. and get this, he even asked follow up questions of his own.. and so did members of his staff and no one died and the thread is still in tact.
Isn't that great?
Thusly implying that they are cool with it too and I am sure that had it been a problem, then he or his staff, would have said so, in lieu of continuing the discussion. And besides, this just means that the people here are actually very comfortable with talking to each other which is something that any admin would want.
But hey, I am not one to make assumptions, I am once again just stating the facts and my personal experiences.
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Popular devices known as "switches" are turning ordinary pistols into fully automatic weapons.
August 14, 2023
These makeshift machine guns — able to inflict indiscriminate carnage in seconds — are helping fuel the national epidemic of gun violence, making shootings increasingly lethal, creating added risks for bystanders and leaving survivors more grievously wounded, according to law enforcement authorities and medical workers.
**LINK**
August 14, 2023
These makeshift machine guns — able to inflict indiscriminate carnage in seconds — are helping fuel the national epidemic of gun violence, making shootings increasingly lethal, creating added risks for bystanders and leaving survivors more grievously wounded, according to law enforcement authorities and medical workers.
**LINK**
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