seasidemike said:
identityissues8 said:
Perhaps not outwardly (and when it has been, excuses have always been made.)
That'd be bad PR.
Financially supporting a regime that does that and worse though is just as inexcusable. (And that's even after we forget about the brutal murders of many - most particularly Iraqi and Afghan men, women, and children over the least nearly 12 years, or the treatment of people without charge nor trial in Guantanamo, and many more human right's abuses.)
Though, that's neither here nor there right? Again, we can always be apologists for the Western world! The well intentioned, mostly white (don't lie, that seems to matter for some reason) Western world.
Neither side is innocent. Both sides are transgressors, aggressors and murderers of innocents.
I thank Allah (swt) for Islam, as it is, not as these people distort it to be - it's well documented to mean as little to ISIS as it does to the West. For without HIS (swt) Deen I'd have no place in this world. My mind would not be able to cope with the state of humanity.
and yet you choose to live with the comfort, protection and freedoms that the West has for you.
How many Iraqis were killed by Iranians? How many Iranians killed by Iraqis? How many Kurds killed in their own countries? How many Shiites killed by Sunnis? How many Sunnis killed by Shiites? How many Afghanis killed by Afghanis? Killing their own women and children? How many of Muslims killed by ISIS?
yes the West is guilty of much, but not just the West but also the Eastern empires as well.
of which you and I both take benefit from in our own freedoms.
Did you even read my post?
I never denied the killing of anyone by anyone? All I said is that we should be holding everyone to the same standard before passing moral judgement.
This means admitting that Western brutality against is as deplorable as when the shoe is on the other foot.
You actually kind of unknowingly played to my hand here as well. You did exactly what I said people do.
You pointed out the problems of the East, and ignored the actions of the West.
The West is so good at simultaneously playing the 'Good Guy' and the 'Victim' that people like you love to forget that.
I am Australian by citizenship. I love Australia. I love my freedom to practise my religion, the safety, the security - and, at the moment, the future for my kids. Provided the bigots don't get their way.
I also have freedom of speech AND political expression, and if I see something wrong, damn right I'll exercise those freedoms. And I have, and will continue to.
Let's be fair and balanced here. Let's not look at this as 'inherently good' and 'inherently bad'. Bias is your worst enemy here, though, I guess it works for your undying patriotism no matter how atrocities and murder have been shoddily glossed over.
But again, let's not pretend all these conservatives who love to rattle on about freedom care about MY freedom.
If someone like TRUE LIBERTY and maybe even Webster had their way, I'd be stripped of all religious freedom. As freedom only matters for people who use it in the 'right way', right fellas?
Webster said:
seasidemike said:
^^ as bad as the West might be, they don't do shit like this:
Beheaded, crucified, buried alive’: UN slams ISIS for killing Iraqi children:
http://rt.com/news/229391-isis-un-children-iraq/
*looks towards Mike, then over towards II8* He's got a point...as bad as the West can be at times, they don't hold a candle to what the savages have done over the past year or so. *adds deadpan* ...maybe we ought to have another Crusade, huh?
It holds more than a freaking candle, Webster.
Though, as always, you're not even going to pretend to be fair and balanced here.
On one hand you call people savages, and then on the other you suggest something as savage as a crusade.
What on Earth is wrong with you? Can you not even see the clear issues with this?
Such self-righteousness. Such blindness to the actions of those you support.
You've been played, Webster. Like a Violin.
See the issues on both sides. Think about them objectively.
You might understand someday.
TRUE LIBERTY said:
identityissues8 said:
+freezy said:
i don't understand calling murderers "savages" yet not calling other murderers "savages", or am i missing something?
When a Western country or those acting in the interests of a Western country does the same thing the killing of civilians is called 'collateral damage', not murder Freezy. Psh. Everyone knows that.
When an American troop decides to degrade an Iraqi POW, or rape his wife...Or any Westerner for that matter, we can defend that and should defend that. Even if our arguments make NO sense, in the grand scheme of things.
Can you please stop questioning these things! Our small minds can't cope! Ahhhh.
We need to believe the West is all good, and all innocent in all cases and at all times! *Heads in sand*
What ISIS did, will do and have done is deplorable. Unislamic and awful.
No questions. No excuses.
These barbarians are not from us! (The Muslim Ummah.)
With that said, we are forgetting this Jordanian pilot is not
entirely innocent (as many of ISIS' past victims have been - Peter Kassig, Alan Henning, etc.) In working for the Jordanian army, children and civilians have died at his hand.
I know those bastard Americans stopping Saddam in the 90s from spreading terror and death across the middle east. And then those bastard Americans free Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2000s to create a democracy. Damn, stop the evil of giving freedom!
If millions of dead civilians in the name of democracy, among a people who had it forced on them (democratic rape, so to speak) is what you call freedom - don't bitch and moan if it ever happens in your homeland.
I don't support it. I don't wish it upon you. But your sheer lack of empathy and unwillingness to spare a thought for the consequences of your nations actions around the world, just shows your disregard for human life and lack of compassion as a person...In general.
You, and people like you are the problem.
I know you don't care. I know you'll think nothing of it. I know you'll probably never change.
Whatever.
Afghanistan was done begrudgingly. Your government needed to at least appear as though they actually gave two squirts of piss for the lives lost on 9/11. They didn't, LIBERTY. I'm sorry, I know this news may break your little heart.
They had their eyes on Iraq before they were even 'elected' (I know. Democracy right...A rigged election only 15 years ago. So worth fighting for.) and that was about money. Not freedom, not human rights, not democracy (an institution they disrespected and apparently do not even care for. About money. End.)
TRUE LIBERTY said:
seasidemike said:
TRUE LIBERTY said:
identityissues8 said:
+freezy said:
i don't understand calling murderers "savages" yet not calling other murderers "savages", or am i missing something?
When a Western country or those acting in the interests of a Western country does the same thing the killing of civilians is called 'collateral damage', not murder Freezy. Psh. Everyone knows that.
When an American troop decides to degrade an Iraqi POW, or rape his wife...Or any Westerner for that matter, we can defend that and should defend that. Even if our arguments make NO sense, in the grand scheme of things.
Can you please stop questioning these things! Our small minds can't cope! Ahhhh.
We need to believe the West is all good, and all innocent in all cases and at all times! *Heads in sand*
What ISIS did, will do and have done is deplorable. Unislamic and awful.
No questions. No excuses.
These barbarians are not from us! (The Muslim Ummah.)
With that said, we are forgetting this Jordanian pilot is not
entirely innocent (as many of ISIS' past victims have been - Peter Kassig, Alan Henning, etc.) In working for the Jordanian army, children and civilians have died at his hand.
I know those bastard Americans stopping Saddam in the 90s from spreading terror and death across the middle east. And then those bastard Americans free Iraq and Afghanistan in the 2000s to create a democracy. Damn, stop the evil of giving freedom!
Seriously .. I wouldn't brag to much about the while Saddam thing... Things are a lot worse there now then before you guys decide to 'free' them. Afghanistan .... Sure in fairness you did free them from the group that you trained and armed in the first place, so I will give you that one.
I am bragging our soldiers did a fantastic job giving them a country to create a democracy. Unfortunately we got a pussy president to do the long term job to keep it and a Iraqi people lacking the will to keep it until the barbarians were at the gates. But we gave it to them they just ruined the opportunity to do something with it.
Oh God.
Bless your heart.
You really have no idea...
And Allah (swt) knows best.