Because it should exist... on fora...Nebulous said:Ashera said:Nebulous said:Princess Alexandros XVII said:
Indeed. I like the part in the parenthesis the best!
no, I understand it perfectly well... you can't apply it so fully on a forum, so it doesn't exist.
If you understand that it doesn't apply to forums, why are you going on about how people should be able to do/say whatever malicious things they want on forums?
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Should anyone use the Banhammer?
- Thread starter Naiwen
- Start date
Ashera said:Because it should exist... on fora...Nebulous said:Ashera said:Nebulous said:Princess Alexandros XVII said:
Indeed. I like the part in the parenthesis the best!
no, I understand it perfectly well... you can't apply it so fully on a forum, so it doesn't exist.
If you understand that it doesn't apply to forums, why are you going on about how people should be able to do/say whatever malicious things they want on forums?
So create a forum and allow anything and everything. Spam bots, trolls, personal attacks and abuse, etc... Have fun!
Ashera said:Nebulous said:Princess Alexandros XVII said:
Indeed. I like the part in the parenthesis the best!
no, I understand it perfectly well... you can't apply it so fully on a forum, so it doesn't exist.
No, you don't. As I said, you do have the freedom to speak. But just as it is outside your house, if you say something maliciously, or attempt to flout laws that have been put in place, you can lose that freedom. In reality, you can say whatever you want. But you have to be prepared for the consequences of your actions.
On forums, it's the same thing. You can say stuff, but there may be consequences. You can speak freely; but there are rules in place and if you break them, those who design and uphold the rules have the right to do whatever they want to you, within the confines of the site.
Yep! I honestly don't care if someone trolled my fora... because really, it's all a matter of opinion.Nebulous said:Ashera said:Because it should exist... on fora...Nebulous said:Ashera said:Nebulous said:Princess Alexandros XVII said:
Indeed. I like the part in the parenthesis the best!
no, I understand it perfectly well... you can't apply it so fully on a forum, so it doesn't exist.
If you understand that it doesn't apply to forums, why are you going on about how people should be able to do/say whatever malicious things they want on forums?
So create a forum and allow anything and everything. Spam bots, trolls, personal attacks and abuse, etc... Have fun!
I think a better question is should you use it and in most cases you shouldn't. Sure you can use it at much as you want but the community can just leave and where would that leave you?
Banning people is not a solution but an admission you failed to come to a reasonable resolution to an issue someone had with another person or the forum itself. I much rather talk about issues and try to work out a compromise so the problem can be put behind us both and they can stay on the forum. I think on a lot of forums people tend to lean way too much on their mod tools and less on communication and compromise to deal with issues and their communities suffer for it. Some get this idea that because they have a title that they hold power over others but in reality when you remove the titles, you have two people who are equals and should see each other as such.
Of course some people intend to harm you and your community and that's when you should ban those people because they intent is to harm and not work with you at all. In all the years I have been on forums in some sort of staff role, I only had to ban less then five people over the course of eight years.
Banning people is not a solution but an admission you failed to come to a reasonable resolution to an issue someone had with another person or the forum itself. I much rather talk about issues and try to work out a compromise so the problem can be put behind us both and they can stay on the forum. I think on a lot of forums people tend to lean way too much on their mod tools and less on communication and compromise to deal with issues and their communities suffer for it. Some get this idea that because they have a title that they hold power over others but in reality when you remove the titles, you have two people who are equals and should see each other as such.
Of course some people intend to harm you and your community and that's when you should ban those people because they intent is to harm and not work with you at all. In all the years I have been on forums in some sort of staff role, I only had to ban less then five people over the course of eight years.
I can only remember banning one user when I was an admin (7 or 8 years of it 
). They were making the other users uncomfortable at first, then they started making death threats to various public figures in multiple sub-forums, then they threatened users, and then they tried to 'hack' into the admin forum (which was mostly empty).
). They were making the other users uncomfortable at first, then they started making death threats to various public figures in multiple sub-forums, then they threatened users, and then they tried to 'hack' into the admin forum (which was mostly empty).
A little lesson in the Constitution for our lesser learned friends...
Freedom of speech is what prevents the government from throwing me in prison when I post, "Obama is a worthless piece of crap!"
However, if the Administrator is an Obama supporter, they are perfectly within their rights to ban the crap out of me.
That which is granted to us by the Bill of Rights restricts the government's actions, not the private citizen's.
If I come into your home and lecture you according to my beliefs in God, Satan, and all things supernatural, I may be practicing my free speech, but you are not infringing on that free speech by kicking me out of your home because I can always go spout that crap elsewhere.
Freedom of speech does not equate to freedom from consequences.
Freedom of speech is what prevents the government from throwing me in prison when I post, "Obama is a worthless piece of crap!"
However, if the Administrator is an Obama supporter, they are perfectly within their rights to ban the crap out of me.
That which is granted to us by the Bill of Rights restricts the government's actions, not the private citizen's.
If I come into your home and lecture you according to my beliefs in God, Satan, and all things supernatural, I may be practicing my free speech, but you are not infringing on that free speech by kicking me out of your home because I can always go spout that crap elsewhere.
Freedom of speech does not equate to freedom from consequences.
Well said. Hopefully that'll make sense to that certain someone who seems to think they are entitled to be immune from all consequences and reactions to their "free speech" 
I Agree! Only staff (Administrators, Moderators, ect.) should be the only members to have that ability , because some people are not trustworthy of that.
Freedom of Speech is not being taking away. If this forum sets up rules and regulations you have to abide by the rules or get the Banhammer...Ashera said:
Ashera said:
"Freedom of Speech" is a right that applies to you within the public domain and seeks to protect your right to speak out against or in favor of an individual, organization or your government.
Private establishments are an entirely different matter. They are the domain of the owner, and if you wish to participate as a guest, you have to respect the owner's ground rules as your host. Your freedom of speech and action is restricted in order to protect the owner and guests of the establishment.
Let me use an example. Would I be allowed, in real life, to simply walk right into your home, make myself comfortable, start criticizing everything about you and perhaps take a dump on your floor for good measure? No. That's called "trespassing" in most countries and is generally treated as a pretty serious crime. It disrupts the life of the owner of that home or establishment and possibly endangers their well-being as well, depending on the actions taken by the trespasser.
In the internet domain, a website is a private establishment. If you want to be treated as guest and remain within the "establishment", then you must respect the host's rules. They have every right to ban you from their "establishment" if they perceive you as a disruption to it. It is their lawful property, and no one other than the owner has any right to endanger it. "Freedom of Speech" and general freedom of action does not and should not apply if it potentially threatens the well-being of the owner and his/her establishment (website.)
That mind-set is what makes people bang their heads into walls, no, they don't, and who wants a dedicated member base of 900, if 850 of them are idiots? If we were to apply "worldly" law equivalency into this, then spamming on a forum would be about the equivalent of vandalism, or more profoundly, I suppose that it'd be harassment, and trolling, while not particularly a crime in small doses, would eventually be harassment as well. However, that is entirely too silly.Ashera said:Nebulous said:Ashera said:
Still going on about that freedom of speech thing?
...It doesn't exist on forums. Trolls and spammers don't have the "free speech" on a forum to terrorize the members and post advertisements all over the place, for example.
yeah they do and they should. Otherwise, if you considered everything "trolling and terrorizing members", how else did you get a dedicated member base of 900 (that contribute to the forums) and up?
Forums are a place for discussion, meant for the rules established by the administrator or moderator. Things like spam, trolling, and other bullshit shouldn't be tolerated unless the website is meant for spam, trolling, and other bullshit.
Ashera said:
If the situation presents itself.....in a heartbeat.
That's right, freedom of speech does not really exist on most web forums.Nebulous said:Ashera said:
Still going on about that freedom of speech thing?
...It doesn't exist on forums. Trolls and spammers don't have the "free speech" on a forum to terrorize the members and post advertisements all over the place, for example.
Princess Alexandros XVII said:
No, full freedom of speech does not really exist on forums, except for the forum's owners...
But these days there are so many forums on the Internet that one can always look for another forum or the next new and/or latest forum, blog or chat web site...
I also do wonder why some people consider being banned from a forum as some terrible thing?
I personally consider it a honor.
wirelessguru1 said:I also do wonder why some people consider being banned from a forum as some terrible thing?
I personally consider it a honor.
Well some people might enjoy a certain forum and have friends to communicate with on a daily basis, having that stripped away could aggravate them.
Yes, I can see that. But I personally only use forums for research...Nebulous said:wirelessguru1 said:I also do wonder why some people consider being banned from a forum as some terrible thing?
I personally consider it a honor.
Well some people might enjoy a certain forum and have friends to communicate with on a daily basis, having that stripped away could aggravate them.
I think the problem lies when people see their mod tools as a way to discourage or silence viewpoints they simply don't like. They don't say anything offensive as it's just a matter of not liking what they think then going out of their way to get them to either leave or not speak of it anymore.
One of the most important concepts that I felt was necessary for a happy and healthy community is the belief that being offensive was never to be a crime. The crime should always be about being abusive with the ban going out to those who abuse others and see no wrong in doing so. You can be offensive without being abusive as much as you can be abusive without being offensive. I want people to come as they are as long as their intent was not to abuse others.
I found most problems have more to do with being offended then being abused which is why as an admin, I made a point of not using moderation powers to silence people who simply held offensive viewpoints because it hurts everyone when one person's freedom to express himself is trampled on under the guise of protecting a community from itself.
Once you let that out, it comes a matter of who gets to decide what is not offensive then applying it over any other person's viewpoint of what is or isn't offensive and less about people being who they are which should be the very foundation of what a community should be built on which is people sharing themselves with each other.
One of the most important concepts that I felt was necessary for a happy and healthy community is the belief that being offensive was never to be a crime. The crime should always be about being abusive with the ban going out to those who abuse others and see no wrong in doing so. You can be offensive without being abusive as much as you can be abusive without being offensive. I want people to come as they are as long as their intent was not to abuse others.
I found most problems have more to do with being offended then being abused which is why as an admin, I made a point of not using moderation powers to silence people who simply held offensive viewpoints because it hurts everyone when one person's freedom to express himself is trampled on under the guise of protecting a community from itself.
Once you let that out, it comes a matter of who gets to decide what is not offensive then applying it over any other person's viewpoint of what is or isn't offensive and less about people being who they are which should be the very foundation of what a community should be built on which is people sharing themselves with each other.
