Does God exist?

[Bluezone777]

It's easy for people to just say " I believe in God" but then act so unlike another who says the same because there is no Jesus in one person's life while the other has Him in His rightful place. I personally felt it necessary to point out Jesus' place in my beliefs so it's clear where I stand.

I can give a good example where one person on one forum mocked the Bible in a topic while in another topic in another forum that very same person claimed to believe in God. People see that and think all Christians are the same as those people when in reality they are pretty much phoney believers that make a mockery out of both God and believers.

 

[Amir]

i love god and jesus

 

[Crusader]

Religion is the cause of 90% of conflict and war. Where is your peaceful God now?

God is not a religious God #1.
Second you cannot expect God to come to the rescue for everything that goes on this earth.How do you expect him to come and save you if you don't believe in him how you suppose to believe in him?

God is a religious figure.

God is often conceived as the Supreme Being and principal object of faith.

I don't expect nothing from a being that doesn't exist. God is always referred to as a "he" as well. Why? Because men have been the dominate force on this planet for as long as humans have existed. Surely "he" is genderless.

My primary school was Church of England and my secondary Catholic. So I have been educated in a Christian environment, so I am by no means unaware of the concept of God or what "he" supposedly is.

 

[DrLeftover]

I'm still waiting on the link to the outside source that backs up the statement that "religion is the cause of 90%...".

I could just as easily say that Pride, or Greed, or even Machismo is the source of 90% of conflict and war.

But of course, somebody would want to see the reference material.

And, something else, who said anything about the "Supreme Being" and Peace?

The working definition I am most familiar with includes Righteousness, which may or may not include "peace" depending on the circumstance.

But then again, that wouldn't be just jumping in and bashing all concepts of god in one fell swoop.

 

[Crusader]

I'm still waiting on the link to the outside source that backs up the statement that "religion is the cause of 90%...".

I could just as easily say that Pride, or Greed, or even Machismo is the source of 90% of conflict and war.

But of course, somebody would want to see the reference material.

And, something else, who said anything about the "Supreme Being" and Peace?

The working definition I am most familiar with includes Righteousness, which may or may not include "peace" depending on the circumstance.

But then again, that wouldn't be just jumping in and bashing all concepts of god in one fell swoop.

It's more of an approximation but cannot ignore that it is largely the cause. But as a writer I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of exaggeration for impact.

Back to the point though what happened to the Jewish people in WWII, and while yes that isn't how the war began, Hitler definitely made a war against the Jews. But more recently, the extremists claiming to be part of a religion who are producing acts of terror. And such conflicts date back further into human history.

Most religions are based upon loving your neighbour, acts of kindness etc. Therefore surely God must be a peaceful being, as you are meant to live your life for him.

 

[DrLeftover]

I'm still waiting on the link to the outside source that backs up the statement that "religion is the cause of 90%...".

I could just as easily say that Pride, or Greed, or even Machismo is the source of 90% of conflict and war.

But of course, somebody would want to see the reference material.

And, something else, who said anything about the "Supreme Being" and Peace?

The working definition I am most familiar with includes Righteousness, which may or may not include "peace" depending on the circumstance.

But then again, that wouldn't be just jumping in and bashing all concepts of god in one fell swoop.

It's more of an approximation but cannot ignore that it is largely the cause. But as a writer I'm sure you're familiar with the concept of exaggeration for impact.

Back to the point though what happened to the Jewish people in WWII, and while yes that isn't how the war began, Hitler definitely made a war against the Jews. But more recently, the extremists claiming to be part of a religion who are producing acts of terror. And such conflicts date back further into human history.

Most religions are based upon loving your neighbour, acts of kindness etc. Therefore surely God must be a peaceful being, as you are meant to live your life for him.

You do have something of a point. And I can see my way clear to agree at least part of the way down that road.

However. You're dead wrong with your last statement about "most religions are based..."

Outside of Christianity in it's various brands, name a couple besides something like the Hare Krishnas.

 

[Crusader]

I thought Buddhism and Islam both teach peace?

 

[Fatal Dawn]

Confucianism
Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
--Analects 12:2

Buddhism
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
-- Udana-Varga 5,1

Islam
No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
--Sunnah

Also verse 5:32 of the Quran:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.


Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
--Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
-- Mahabharata 5,1517

Taoism
Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
-- Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien

Zoroastrianism
That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
-- Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

More: http://hipstermonk.com/the-golden-rule-a-list-of-two-dozen-versions/

The Golden Rule is not unique to Christianity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHJ4DRZNZM

 

[Crusader]

I'd also like to weigh in with my opinion to why God does "exist". It's all to do with people control. Fear rules. God was created to make people think twice before committing crimes knowing they may go to "hell". The all knowing being who will ultimately judge you when your time comes.

 

[DrLeftover]

Confucianism
Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
--Analects 12:2

Buddhism
Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
-- Udana-Varga 5,1

Islam
No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
--Sunnah

Also verse 5:32 of the Quran:
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely.


Judaism
What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
--Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Hinduism
This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
-- Mahabharata 5,1517

Taoism
Regard your neighbor’s gain as your gain, and your neighbor’s loss as your own loss.
-- Tai Shang Kan Yin P’ien

Zoroastrianism
That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
-- Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

More: http://hipstermonk.com/the-golden-rule-a-list-of-two-dozen-versions/

The Golden Rule is not unique to Christianity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhHJ4DRZNZM

It Worked!

Thank you.

You missed a couple I had in mind, but that is an impressive list. And now I get to go follow up on a couple of them myself. Thank you indeed.

I was especially thinking about the Nordic and Germanic tradition of treating your entire village like it was your family.

Most of these made a practice of extending hospitality to strangers even to the point of you, yourself, going without.

 

[Fatal Dawn]

I like reading the Analects, because Confucius had such a great interpretation of The Golden Rule. Beyond religion, it was a duty-based, deontological ethical code that described the responsibility we have to our various relationships (families, communities and ultimately the state). Doing good to your neighbor was necessary for the rest of society to function. A lot of pantheistic religions also emphasize the importance Earthly cooperation. But I see your point, there are many ways to approach the ethic of reciprocity, but it is such a rudimentary concept at the crux of all reason and humanity.

It is something that strengthens my own faith in a higher power. It is is not just about serving some supreme being, but about harmonizing with others. Perhaps it is also something that has become too systematized by organized religion?

 

[Amir]

Islam both teach peace?

yes Islam teach all...islam according human nature

 

[Bluezone777]

The thing about the Christian faith is that it demands you humble yourself completely and put yourself completely at the mercy of Jesus. He's not willing to share the credit when it comes to your salvation as it demands your full faith be put on Him and Him alone and you trying to share that with anything else prevents you from doing that and if you could do even 1 percent of the work of salvation on your own means you can boast in yourself which is the opposite of being completely humble.

Another thing that separates the Christian faith from other religions is that the other religions demand you do works to appease God while the Christian faith has God do all the work in appeasing Himself through His son Jesus Christ. The only thing the Christian faith demands is that you put your trust in the works He did for you as opposed to you having to do all the works yourself. Due to you not having anything to do with your salvation ultimately frees you from the bondage of sin and religion and while you are still a slave to Christ, it's ultimately freeing when compared to a life of sin or religion as the burden He has you carry is light when compared to sin or religion.

It doesn't mean a true follower of Christ won't sin because they will but they will hate doing it and will find no joy in sin. The Holy Spirit granted to all true believers convicts you of the sin you do throughout your walk with Christ and draws you to repentance throughout your entire life.

People would rather cling to their pride and their sin then submit and it's a real shame as there is nothing in this world worth even remotely as much as what Christ offers to those who submit to Him.

 

[Crusader]

My understanding of Christian teachings is to only worship God not idols. So doesn't that mean worshipping Jesus is against the teachings? Jesus is the son of God, but also been to referred to as actually being God.

So that in itself is why I have my greatest doubts in religion / existence of a God - too many contradictions.

 

[Bluezone777]

No it's not a contradiction as God, Jesus which is God in human form and the holy spirit which is God in spirit are one and the same. The issue is with worshiping a false idol which just isn't something you say is your God but isn't as it can also include anything you do that is put above God in importance. Even a good thing if put into a place where it doesn't belong in your life is also considered worshiping a false idol.

The issue with worshiping false idols is when you idolize that thing then you demonize the opposite which is destructive if it's not God. When you idolize God then you demonize the opposite which is demons which makes sense.

A good example of the destructive nature of false idols is easily seen by going into a Justin Bieber video on Youtube and commenting that you merely don't care much for his music. People will lash at you violently for it because those people made an idol out of him and therefore will demonize the opposite of him which is anyone who doesn't like his music. This is why false idols are so destructive and why it's forbidden in the bible because it's for our own good that we obey that command.

 

[Raven]

I was especially thinking about the Nordic and Germanic tradition of treating your entire village like it was your family.

Most of these made a practice of extending hospitality to strangers even to the point of you, yourself, going without.

Trying to find some Norse proverbs but not quite right.

The Germanic belief is that you hospitality is very important however you must be wary of betrayal.

 

[Rebel]

Yes, and besides...who are we to say He does not? Humans still don't understand how half the Earth works.

 

[Evil Eye]

Off topic, I'd like to say I'm very pleased about the level of civility in this thread. It's been a nicer read than some of the political ones. Give yourself a cookie!


On topic, does God exist?
Well, clearly I don't know, but I'm going to go ahead and say "no, god (or gods) as presented by the various religions does not exist". They are the products of man: ways of explaining the natural world and binding people together. Smooth put it rather nicely in this post.

However, dismissing the various human gods as fictitious doesn't answer the question so, what is a god? When you don't know what a word means, grab a dictionary!

1. capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as
   a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe
   b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2. : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3. : a person or thing of supreme value
4. : a powerful ruler

Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god

3 and 4 definitely exist, but I wouldn't expect many people to define god as such.
1b sounds like DrLeftover's spiritual cosmology. I won't claim that this cannot exist, but personally I'm not likely to start believing in it either.
1a seems to be the common monotheistic answer and 2 sounds like the more general version. So, let's narrow it down to 1a and 2.

1a An entity perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness. (The rest of the line got dismissed with human religions.)
This sounds like wistful thinking. Perfection is certainly subjective, but even if it isn't... Goodness implies some moral standard to be good by. Per Fatal Dawn's post about the Golden Rule, an absolute moral standard might exist for humans, but since humans are flawed (see also Smooth's post where she doesn't outright say it), this moral standard shouldn't apply to our entity - it being perfect. Therefore, we have no moral standard with which to judge our entity and we can't call it good even if - by its own standard - it is. In conclusion, I do not believe an entity fitting this description exists. I do not, however, rule out the possibility of there being lifeforms other than the ones on this planet, some of which might be wiser or better than us.

Stargate had its issues with defining divinity. Suppose we have a race of largely immaterial beings seemingly made of light or fire that can communicate telepathically, turn invisible, and do a whole load of other things from their own plane of existence, why should they not be worshipped as gods?

I think 2 gave us the answer. A god is that which is worshipped. Everything seems to boil down to, what do I choose to worship? What do I choose to believe? How does believing something change anything?

The first is a personal choice, I could start worshipping a rock and it would be my god. You might fail to see it as a particularly worthwhile decision, but it's a god now.
What you choose to believe is, again, entirely up to you. The rest of the world might make you out for a crackpot.
The third is important.

If your belief changes nothing in your life, you might as well not believe anything. If your belief causes you to harm others, the people retain the right to pass judgement over you as they see fit - preferably by vote and not by god. If your belief leads you to aid others then perhaps your activities should be encouraged.

If you believe in a deity, it is real to you and exists for you. A fiction can exist as a thought or idea. Perhaps that is a slightly shaky existence, but as a god gains followers so too does its influence grow. How many acts need to be performed in an entity's name before it might as well be a real force?

Having said all that, I would like to end on a note of personal arrogance: my belief.
Just because something exists doesn't mean it deserves worship.

 

[+paradox]

of course God exist.

not much of a debate there. (;

 

[+paradox]

Off topic, I'd like to say I'm very pleased about the level of civility in this thread. It's been a nicer read than some of the political ones. Give yourself a cookie!

nice ain't it? (;