Recreational cannabis

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

everything effects everyone differently, including weed...

just because you smoked pot for a hundred of years doesn't mean you know exactly what happens to everyone when they smoke or when they're high, because, again, everyone is different...

if you want to blame the car companies for making a car, or a beer company for making the beer, or just blame the person that did the crime or created the accident...

if weed was completely legalized, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because weed is everywhere and people will smoke it no matter what, and they are... why not make it legal and tax it so the economy can get a boost to help the society out and not have so many people in jail for petty crimes like possession of cannabis, which is completely dumb...

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

America is weak on this crime and it needs to change. And examples of it go and on.

Drunk driver's light sentence triggers protest in Olympia http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Drunk-drivers-light-sentence-triggers-protest-in-Olympia-259543311.html

Sentences must be tougher for drunk drivers


It is sometimes said that in Acadiana, no one goes to jail for drunk driving until they kill someone.

And those who do go to jail, as it turns out, often don’t stay long.

That hardly qualifies as justice.

Tyson Dupuis of Crowley, who was convicted twice on drunk driving charges, served only 13 months for killing Mitchell “Shelly” Romero with his vehicle while he was drunk. He was recently released in spite of a 10-year sentence for vehicular homicide, with five years suspended and three to be served without possibility of probation, parole or suspension, imposed by 15th Judicial District Court Judge Edward Rubin.

Even that full sentence should not be considered a harsh enough penalty for recklessly causing the loss of a life.

The case is not unique.

Karen Stelly of Duson was recently notified that Sean Holloway, also of Duson, who killed her daughter in a vehicular homicide, will be released in 2015, after serving only 15 months of a three-year sentence imposed without probation or parole by Judge Marilyn Castle.

Meanwhile, Dupuis is back in jail, awaiting a hearing to clarify his sentence. District Attorney Mike Harson recently told The Daily Advertiser his staff believes Dupuis’ release was due to an error on the part of the Louisiana Department of Corrections.

But maybe not.

Even when a judge sentences an offender to time without possibility of probation or parole, an inmate can earn an early release through good behavior. http://www.dailyworld.com/story/opinion/2014/09/24/sentences-must-tougher-drunk-drivers/16181779/

Drunken driver sentenced in accident that killed Belton man

Ronald O’Kelly (left) was given suspended sentences and must serve 120 days in jail in the April 2013 hit-and-run accident that killed motorcyclist Leroy “Buddy” Bronson. After he serves 120, he will be given probation. On Friday, O’Kelly exited the Jackson County courtroom with his attorney, John Picerno.
› ‹

Ronald O’Kelly (left) was given suspended sentences and must serve 120 days in jail in the April 2013 hit-and-run accident that killed motorcyclist Leroy “Buddy” Bronson. After he serves 120, he will be given probation. On Friday, O’Kelly exited the Jackson County courtroom with his attorney, John Picerno. JILL TOYOSHIBA The Kansas City Star


For members of the Leroy “Buddy” Bronson family, it was one more incomprehensible tragedy.

On Friday, they watched and lamented the sentencing of the man who pleaded guilty in the hit-and-run accident that killed Bronson last year. He also pleaded to involuntary vehicular manslaughter due to intoxication.

Three years ago, another drunken driver killed Bronson’s wife and daughter.

Now the man convicted of killing Bronson is getting what they considered a light sentence: two suspended sentences, and then 120 days in jail and followed by probation.

“It’s unthinkable,” said Tyler Bronson, a stepson of Bronson. “It teaches other drunk drivers that if they get in a wreck — fatality or nonfatality — to just run and you will get a light sentence.”

But the judge and prosecutors, while expressing their sympathy, said they were restrained by the evidence available to them.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article716741.html#storylink=cpy

Drunk driver to be sentenced for manslaughter in passenger's death in Skaneateles

Elbridge, NY -- An Elbridge man will go to state prison for 2 to 6 years after admitting he drove drunk in a crash with a milk truck that killed his passenger.

Micahel Stern, 25, pleaded guilty last month to vehicular manslaughter in the April 24, 2013 crash that killed his friend Patrick Hallinan, 26, also of Elbridge.

State police found that Stern was speeding and drunk when the minivan he was driving crashed into the tanker portion of a Bryne Dairy truck at Jordan and Stump roads at 1:59 a.m. on April 24, 2013. His blood alcohol content was 0.17, more than twice the legal limit, according to state police.

The two had been drinking at a party and were on their way back from picking up wooden pallets for a bonfire when the crash occurred.

Stern was critically injured in the crash and spent two weeks in a coma at Upstate University Hospital.

Stern was free on bail but sent to jail with no bail following his plea.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/drunken_driver_to_be_sentenced_for_manslaughter_in_passengers_death_in_skaneatel.html

Family's outrage after drunk hit-and-run driver is sentenced to just 120 DAYS in prison for killing man who lost wife and daughter in similar incident

   Leroy Bronson, 57, was killed last year when drunk driver Ronald O'Kelly, 25, sped through a red light and crashed into his motorcycle
   Instead of calling for help, O'Kelly fled the scene
   Just two years earlier, Bronson lost his wife Diane and 11-year-old daughter Anna in a similar accident
   On Friday, O'Kelly was sentenced to just 120 day in prison and probation
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690645/Familys-outrage-drunk-hit-run-driver-sentenced-just-120-days-prison-killing-man-lost-wife-11-year-old-daughter-similar-incident.html

In Wisconsin statehouse, laws on drunken driving seen as tough enough
Legislators have rejected efforts to hike penalties, even for repeat offenders
Kenneth Carpenter died in 2010, after 14 years of sobriety. In the 2013-14 legislative session, Tim Carpenter co-sponsored a number of bills, authored by Republicans, to toughen Wisconsin’s laws regarding drunken driving.

These included a bill to make all persons cited with first-offense operating while intoxicated, or OWI, appear in court, which some can now avoid. The bill drew unanimous support from committees in both legislative houses and passed the Assembly on a voice vote.

And then it died — along with every bill in the package and virtually every other proposal in the session to toughen Wisconsin’s drunken driving laws.

Carpenter, on the cusp of his fourth decade as a state lawmaker, is dismayed. “People were overwhelmingly in favor of this legislation,” he said of the package. “We blew a golden opportunity.”
http://wisconsinwatch.org/2014/11/in-wisconsin-statehouse-laws-on-drunken-driving-seen-as-tough-enough/

Some judges skirt law with light OWI penalties

Wisconsin judges don't always issue stiff penalities for chronic drunken drivers.

Convicted of a seventh drunken driving offense in 2012, 42-year-old Corey Dekeyser still should have been in prison last month under a state law mandating a prison sentence of at least three years.

But Brown County Judge Donald Zuidmulder sentenced the Green Bay man to two years behind bars and made him eligible for an early-release program that set him free after nine months.

So Dekeyser was back behind the wheel Oct. 5 in Howard when Brown County sheriff's deputies found him passed out in the driver's seat of a running vehicle, according to a criminal complaint in the pending case. A preliminary breath test revealed Dekeyser had a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.17, more than twice the level considered legally intoxicated in Wisconsin.
http://www.postcrescent.com/longform/news/investigations/2014/11/07/judges-skirt-law-light-owi-penalties/18602405/

Man gets 3-1/2 years for fatal drunken driving crash in Warren

A Farmington Hills man was ordered to spend 43 months to 15 years in prison for being drunk and causing a one-car crash in Warren that killed a 20-year-old woman.

Cuong M. Nguyen, 35, was escorted to prison at the end of a sentencing hearing in court that included intense debate among attorneys respectively arguing for shorter and longer sentences.

http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20140827/man-gets-3-12-years-for-fatal-drunken-driving-crash-in-warren

Grieving family disgusted hit-and-run driver gets 120 days in jail

KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -

A family shared their disgust and outrage that a drunk driver who fled the scene of a fatal hit-and-run crash will only get 120 days in jail.
MORE
Man accused of driving drunk, killing man whose daughter, wife died due to drunk driver

A Kansas City man was drunk and talking on his cell phone when he ran a red light and plowed into a motorcycle rider, killing him, according to Jackson County prosecutors.

The Jackson County Prosecutor's Office on Monday charged Ronald J. O'Kelly, 24, of Kansas City was charged with first-degree involuntary manslaughter and leaving the scene of a motor vehicle accident.
Continue reading >>
Inside KLTV.com
Family and friends say goodbye to mother and daughter
Man involved in deadly fourth of July crash identified
Man sentenced for deadly Fourth of July crash
Belton man's death in hit-and-run second family tragedy
Belton man mourns wife, daughter killed in wrong-way crash
Wrong-way driver pleads guilty to killing mother, daughter

Because Ronald O'Kelly fled the scene, prosecutors could not prove via blood tests his alcohol content when he struck Leroy "Buddy" Bronson in April 2013.

The man who was drunk and drove the wrong way on the Fourth of July in 2011 and killed Bronson's wife, Diane, and 11-year-old daughter, Anna, got 15 years in prison.

The difference? The 2011 driver was badly injured and couldn't flee the scene, and prosecutors could prove he was drunk based on a blood test. The 2011 driver had a public defender, while O'Kelly was represented by attorney John Picerno, who is best known for serving as defense attorney for the parents of Lisa Irwin, who was 10 months old when she went missing in October 2011.
http://www.kltv.com/story/26004203/family-disgusted-hit-and-run-driver-gets-120-days-in-jail

DWI drivers who kill can get off easy

   Article by: PAM LOUWAGIE and GLENN HOWATT , Star Tribune s taff w riters
   Updated: March 24, 2010 - 9:48 AM

In nearly 60 percent of cases calling for four years in prison, drivers serve a year or less in jail.

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A first-time felon robbed a St. Paul bank with an apologetic note to a teller and was sentenced to more than three years in federal prison.

The president of a home-building company swindled lenders out of $6 million in a complicated mortgage scam and was sentenced to seven years in state prison.

A Minneapolis mom got drunk and plowed her Audi into a bus shelter, killing a pedestrian. A judge sentenced her to a year in jail, but told her she would have to spend only eight months at the county workhouse.

Those sentences are fairly typical in Minnesota, where drunken drivers who kill someone with their car sometimes get less time behind bars than nonviolent offenders.

Public safety advocates say it's part of a culture of forgiveness surrounding drunken driving, a social problem that killed 893 people on Minnesota roads in the past five years and injured thousands more.

In drunken-driving deaths, state sentencing guidelines call for a four-year prison term for offenders with no criminal history, but nearly 60 percent of those convicted from 2004 through 2008 received no prison time at all, a Star Tribune analysis shows. Usually, the sentences include long probations with various conditions and up to a year in jail. Unlike many states, Minnesota has no minimum sentence for the crime.
http://www.startribune.com/local/88734587.html

Drunk driver sentenced after killing West Palm Beach mother

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Anthony Giglio of Wellington was sentenced Wednesday to eleven years in prison after he pleaded guilty to driving drunk in 2013.

Giglio ran a red light and slammed into a mother and daughter.

Sandy Suarez was killed in the crash, and her three-year-old daughter survived but was injured.

"I know she knows her mom is gone. I know that opened her eyes and she realized she wasn't going to go home with her mom," Jazzmin Suarez, the victim's sister, said.

Giglio pleaded guilty and the judge acknowledged he took responsibility for what he did.

http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/drunk-driver-sentenced-after-killing-west-palm-beach-mother

Let me know when there is real justice for drunk driving and get back with me on the pot issue.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

Pardon me while I fall out laughing.

What's to laugh at? All I've gotten in this conversation is passive aggressive remarks and he/she harassed another user about something not even relating to the subject. That's trolling!

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

You started Canada and I would do it again if you made a comment about something in a topic I did not agree with. Do not let me stop you if you feel like reporting me. Do it now and don't wait.

I would rather you left me alone altogether because you're acting like a jerk.

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

 

[Sinon]

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

Pardon me while I fall out laughing.

What's to laugh at? All I've gotten in this conversation is passive aggressive remarks and he/she harassed another user about something not even relating to the subject. That's trolling!

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

You started Canada and I would do it again if you made a comment about something in a topic I did not agree with. Do not let me stop you if you feel like reporting me. Do it now and don't wait.

I would rather you left me alone altogether because you're acting like a jerk.

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

Only if you don't blindly agree with them. If you were on his side there'd be no problem

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

And besides a crime rise now the tax payers will have to suffer from other unintended consequences. Ya that so called boost in tax revenue is looking really sweet when it will go to pay the influx of homeless people coming for the weed. Personally I say screw them if that is the life choice they made to be homeless and just want the good ole wacky tabaccy. But of course our government that let a law pass without doing any due diligence on all the bad outcomes that would come from passing such a law is going to use tax dollars to pay for these people.

Officials at some Denver homeless shelters say the legalization of marijuana has contributed to an increase in the number of younger people living on the city's streets.

One organization dealing with the increase is Urban Peak, which provides food, shelter and other services to homeless people aged 15 to 24 in Denver and Colorado Springs.

"Of the new kids we're seeing, the majority are saying they're here because of the weed," deputy director Kendall Rames told The Denver Post (http://dpo.st/1l1vQER ). "They're traveling through. It is very unfortunate."

The Salvation Army's single men's shelter in Denver has been serving more homeless this summer, and officials have noted an increase in the number of 18- to 25-year-olds there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/28/marijuana-legalization-homeless-denver_n_5626948.html

Legal pot drives up number of homeless in Denver
Homeless shelter officials say legalizing marijuana responsible for rise of young people living on the streets. There aren’t enough jobs to support those who come to buy weed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/legal-pot-raises-homeless-numbers-denver-article-1.1881281#

Legal pot blamed for some of influx of homeless in Denver this summer

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26216037/legal-pot-blamed-some-influx-homeless-this-summer

 

[Enter Username Here]

That guy is smoking crack cocaine or is on the verge too.

Why argue about Pot?

Just smoke a joint and we will all get along.

 

[Payton]

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

It's not the fact that you gave your opinion. I debated with you in a civil manner beforehand and showed why I believe your sources don't support the assertion. It was when you started to throw in the passive aggressive remarks that I decided I didn't want to "debate" with you. It seems like you, who I presume is supposed to be my senior, can't have a rational, civil discussion.

Only if you don't blindly agree with them. If you were on his side there'd be no problem

Refer to my statement above. Also, it's not blindly agreeing when I have presented actual evidence, and his/her arguments are all straw man.

I'm sure it will have no affect on the outcome, but I'll say it again: Correlation does not equal causation. I have seen no convincing sources on TL's side to suggest rationally that marijuana should not be legalized.

 

[Payton]

And besides a crime rise now the tax payers will have to suffer from other unintended consequences. Ya that so called boost in tax revenue is looking really sweet when it will go to pay the influx of homeless people coming for the weed. Personally I say screw them if that is the life choice they made to be homeless and just want the good ole wacky tabaccy. But of course our government that let a law pass without doing any due diligence on all the bad outcomes that would come from passing such a law is going to use tax dollars to pay for these people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/28/marijuana-legalization-homeless-denver_n_5626948.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/legal-pot-raises-homeless-numbers-denver-article-1.1881281#
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26216037/legal-pot-blamed-some-influx-homeless-this-summer

This is interesting and I was unaware of it. However I don't think we have cannabis to blame here. Certainly the change in the legal status is what attracted people, however the true reasoning for the rise in homelessness is twofold. First we have to consider the lifestyle choices that these people are making. They don't reflect all consumers of marijuana nor do they represent any authentic social stereotype; they represent themselves, and the affect they have on society is their own fault, not a drug's. Second let's remember when alcohol was prohibited and controlled by the black market, if only to make a comparison. If a single state were to legalize it in those times, a demographic of people would migrate to that place in order to be able to consume it without legal scrutiny. That isn't necessarily the issue. The problem is that there is a lack of work for the people who are migrating to Colorado, as stated in the articles. If we were to see legalization on a federal level then people would not need to move there, thus the homelessness that is purportedly "all relating to marijuana" would subside, and you'd just have... regular homeless people.

edit: And here is something else, from the Huffington Post article you cited:

The shelter housed an average of 225 each night last summer, but this summer it's averaging 300 people per night. No breakdown was available by age, but an informal survey found that about a quarter of the increase was related to marijuana, including people who moved hoping to find work in the marijuana industry, said Murray Flagg, divisional social services secretary for the Salvation Army's Intermountain Division.

Some of the homeless have felony backgrounds that prevent them from working in pot shops and grow houses, which are regulated by the state, Flagg said. He also thinks others may find work but don't earn enough to pay rent in Denver's expensive housing market.

[...]

St. Francis executive director Tom Leuhrs also sees an economic reason for the increase of the number of homeless young people. They're having difficulty moving from high school and college to the workforce, Leuhrs said.

"The economy is not supporting them. There are not enough jobs," he said.

 

[Payton]

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

America is weak on this crime and it needs to change. And examples of it go and on.

Let me know when there is real justice for drunk driving and get back with me on the pot issue.

This is where you're misinformed. There is not a de facto response to any drug. There are general effects but due to our physiology and psychology, everyone feels them differently, with variant outcomes that make it harder to generalize. I am not weighing in on the legal debate over whether driving on the influence of marijuana should be allowed, simply spectating. There is no easy way to police driving in that state. It's a difficult topic.

Drunk driving is another story altogether. There isn't so much of a question as to whether or not someone will be able to operate heavy machinery, its effects affect the majority much more powerfully than marijuana. You could say the same about prescription pills like vicodin or xanax too.

 

[Enter Username Here]

Okay, so they say if you have psychosis before smoking it, it can set the symptoms off more.

It's for you to know, if your so mentally ill that weed may effect your state worse, don't smoke it.

 

[Payton]

Okay, so they say if you have psychosis before smoking it, it can set the symptoms off more.

It's for you to know, if your so mentally ill that weed may effect your state worse, don't smoke it.

Likewise with any psychoactive drug, and interesting because the CBD compound in cannabis is actually being researched as an anti-psychotic. However if you were looking to medicate with CBD, you would want an extract in the vein of Charlotte's Web, with a minimal THC content.

One point of debate is, "How do we know who is predisposed to psychological conditions that THC could exacerbate?"

The sad answer is that right now we have no way of telling. Furthermore there is no way of telling how much is too much. One person who consumed large amounts of cannabis may not be as affected as another who shortly took prescription stimulants, or vice versa.

 

[Enter Username Here]

I guess toke at your own risk.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

It's not the fact that you gave your opinion. I debated with you in a civil manner beforehand and showed why I believe your sources don't support the assertion. It was when you started to throw in the passive aggressive remarks that I decided I didn't want to "debate" with you. It seems like you, who I presume is supposed to be my senior, can't have a rational, civil discussion.

Only if you don't blindly agree with them. If you were on his side there'd be no problem

Refer to my statement above. Also, it's not blindly agreeing when I have presented actual evidence, and his/her arguments are all straw man.

I'm sure it will have no affect on the outcome, but I'll say it again: Correlation does not equal causation. I have seen no convincing sources on TL's side to suggest rationally that marijuana should not be legalized.

My discussions are quite rational. But if you can't take the heat in a debate part of the forum I don't know what to say.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

America is weak on this crime and it needs to change. And examples of it go and on.

Let me know when there is real justice for drunk driving and get back with me on the pot issue.

This is where you're misinformed. There is not a de facto response to any drug. There are general effects but due to our physiology and psychology, everyone feels them differently, with variant outcomes that make it harder to generalize. I am not weighing in on the legal debate over whether driving on the influence of marijuana should be allowed, simply spectating. There is no easy way to police driving in that state. It's a difficult topic.

Drunk driving is another story altogether. There isn't so much of a question as to whether or not someone will be able to operate heavy machinery, its effects affect the majority much more powerfully than marijuana. You could say the same about prescription pills like vicodin or xanax too.

No I am not misinformed pot effects everyones reaction time and leads to the death of people just like I showed above. Or do you need to see more articles of grieving families with loved ones dead. But any excuse to get that high! Right!

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

And besides a crime rise now the tax payers will have to suffer from other unintended consequences. Ya that so called boost in tax revenue is looking really sweet when it will go to pay the influx of homeless people coming for the weed. Personally I say screw them if that is the life choice they made to be homeless and just want the good ole wacky tabaccy. But of course our government that let a law pass without doing any due diligence on all the bad outcomes that would come from passing such a law is going to use tax dollars to pay for these people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/28/marijuana-legalization-homeless-denver_n_5626948.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/legal-pot-raises-homeless-numbers-denver-article-1.1881281#
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26216037/legal-pot-blamed-some-influx-homeless-this-summer

This is interesting and I was unaware of it. However I don't think we have cannabis to blame here. Certainly the change in the legal status is what attracted people, however the true reasoning for the rise in homelessness is twofold. First we have to consider the lifestyle choices that these people are making. They don't reflect all consumers of marijuana nor do they represent any authentic social stereotype; they represent themselves, and the affect they have on society is their own fault, not a drug's. Second let's remember when alcohol was prohibited and controlled by the black market, if only to make a comparison. If a single state were to legalize it in those times, a demographic of people would migrate to that place in order to be able to consume it without legal scrutiny. That isn't necessarily the issue. The problem is that there is a lack of work for the people who are migrating to Colorado, as stated in the articles. If we were to see legalization on a federal level then people would not need to move there, thus the homelessness that is purportedly "all relating to marijuana" would subside, and you'd just have... regular homeless people.

edit: And here is something else, from the Huffington Post article you cited:

The shelter housed an average of 225 each night last summer, but this summer it's averaging 300 people per night. No breakdown was available by age, but an informal survey found that about a quarter of the increase was related to marijuana, including people who moved hoping to find work in the marijuana industry, said Murray Flagg, divisional social services secretary for the Salvation Army's Intermountain Division.

Some of the homeless have felony backgrounds that prevent them from working in pot shops and grow houses, which are regulated by the state, Flagg said. He also thinks others may find work but don't earn enough to pay rent in Denver's expensive housing market.

[...]

St. Francis executive director Tom Leuhrs also sees an economic reason for the increase of the number of homeless young people. They're having difficulty moving from high school and college to the workforce, Leuhrs said.

"The economy is not supporting them. There are not enough jobs," he said.

You can twist it any which you want but Its exactly because of pot we have a spike of homeless people over crowding the city. Its bringing in career criminals which increases crime which also puts stress on the legal system. We have some losers that somehow thought they could work some crappy job there and just enjoy being high all the time while still afford to live in a expensive city. And the tax payers are all going to suffer the consequences.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Okay so lets see so far we have.....

Higher crime.

Not the revenue Denver expected.

More stress on the justice system.

A increase in dangerous people on the roads.

A huge influx of homeless people bringing in criminals and people who can't take care of themselves.

And now lets take a look at the schools and how it is effecting our youth.

Pot problems in Colorado schools increase with legalization. In two years of work as an undercover officer with a drug task force, Mike Dillon encountered plenty of drugs. But nothing has surprised him as much as what he has seen in schools lately.

Dillon, who is now a school resource officer with the Mesa County Sheriff's Department, said he is seeing more and younger kids bringing marijuana to schools, in sometimes-surprising quantities.

"When we have middle school kids show up with a half an ounce, that is shocking to me," Dillon said.

The same phenomenon is being reported around Colorado after the 2010 regulation of medical marijuana dispensaries and the 2012 vote to legalize recreational marijuana.

There are no hard numbers yet because school disciplinary statistics do not isolate marijuana from general drug violations. But school resource officers, counselors, nurses, staff and officials with Colorado school safety and disciplinary programs are anecdotally reporting an increase in marijuana-related incidents in middle and high schools.

"We have seen a sharp rise in drug-related disciplinary actions which, anecdotally, from credible sources, is being attributed to the changing social norms surrounding marijuana," said Janelle Krueger. Krueger is the program manager for Expelled and At-Risk Student Services for the Colorado Department of Education and also a longtime adviser to the Colorado Association of School Resource Officers. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24501596/pot-problems-colorado-schools-increase-legalization

And lets look at the dramatic increase in vehicle accidents.

Corrigendum to “Trends in fatal motor vehicle crashes before and after marijuana commercialization in Colorado”

Background

Legal medical marijuana has been commercially available on a widespread basis in Colorado since mid-2009; however, there is a dearth of information about the impact of marijuana commercialization on impaired driving. This study examined if the proportions of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive and alcohol-impaired, respectively, have changed in Colorado before and after mid-2009 and then compared changes in Colorado with 34 non-medical marijuana states (NMMS).
Methods

Thirty-six 6-month intervals (1994–2011) from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System were used to examine temporal changes in the proportions of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were alcohol-impaired (≥0.08 g/dl) and marijuana-positive, respectively. The pre-commercial marijuana time period in Colorado was defined as 1994–June 2009 while July 2009–2011 represented the post-commercialization period.
Results

In Colorado, since mid-2009 when medical marijuana became commercially available and prevalent, the trend became positive in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive (change in trend, 2.16 (0.45), p < 0.0001); in contrast, no significant changes were seen in NMMS. For both Colorado and NMMS, no significant changes were seen in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were alcohol-impaired.
Conclusions

Prevention efforts and policy changes in Colorado are needed to address this concerning trend in marijuana-positive drivers. In addition, education on the risks of marijuana-positive driving needs to be implemented.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376871614008345

Marijuana use involved in more fatal accidents since commercialization of medical marijuana
Date:
May 15, 2014
Source:
University of Colorado Denver
Summary:
The proportion of marijuana-positive drivers involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes in Colorado has increased dramatically since the commercialization of medical marijuana in the middle of 2009, according to a study. The study raises important concerns about the increase in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive since the commercialization of medical marijuana in Colorado, particularly in comparison to the 34 non-medical marijuana states.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm

And guess who is going to pay for all these medical problems showing up thanks to pot?

Marijuana ER visits on the rise
By Dr. Dan Hehir

In January of 2014, Colorado became the first state to allow the retail sale of marijuana for recreational use. At the Telluride Medical Center, one trend that has accompanied the legalization is an increase in the number of patients seen for marijuana related complications.

The problem seems to be associated with high dosage edible marijuana products.

Marijuana is not just sold in its natural, smokable state. It's also made available as ingestible marijuana cookies, brownies, sodas, candies, gummy bears, pastries, olive oil, spaghetti sauce, tinctures, and more. Edibles generally have high doses of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main active ingredient in marijuana.

It's important from a public health perspective to examine why this is and to educate the public on some pitfalls associated with using marijuana.

I have served in emergency departments for over 15 years. During those first ten years I don't recall treating a single case of an adverse reaction to marijuana. This changed as medicinal marijuana use became more prevalent. Now, after the legalization of recreational marijuana, I'm noticing a dramatic increase in emergency visits related to the drug.

The effects of ingesting THC, compared to smoking it, take much longer to manifest. Often people keep ingesting only to realize too late that they took too much.

Not unlike alcohol, you can get widely differing effects from marijuana depending on how it's used and the dosage.

Smoking marijuana gives the user a dose of roughly 5mg, although this depends greatly on the concentration of THC in the marijuana and how it's smoked. Colorado law limits the THC content in an edible to 100mg.

Eating just one 100mg edible would be like smoking 20 hits of marijuana. This may be possible for a heavy user, but for many it's enough to create problems.
http://tellmed.org/patient-information/local-health-concerns-1/marijuana-edibles-sends-some-to-er

 

[Payton]

My discussions are quite rational. But if you can't take the heat in a debate part of the forum I don't know what to say.  

I don't see how that justifies taking on an aggressive tone. Those kind of responses are attempts at asserting dominance, same with the haughtiness. It's really off putting.

My take on why I can't see the rationale in your argument is that they aren't directly correlative. I also feel like my common grounds are being ignored. Just some food for thought.

No I am not misinformed pot effects everyones reaction time and leads to the death of people just like I showed above. Or do you need to see more articles of grieving families with loved ones dead. But any excuse to get that high! Right!

There are no excuses being made. We are simply exchanging ideas. I do not have to be able to drive to justify getting high. I do it on my own accord, regardless.

I acknowledged that there are similar effects of marijuana and of course I know that they slow one's reaction time. However I do not see that as a prevalent cause of death, and researchers who you've linked to have also noted that the effects are minor in comparison to other drugs. If xanax can be approved and safe for driving, then I'm sure that THC can. I digress though. As I've said before, I also acknowledge that it is currently hard to determine how to police driving while on marijuana. So I am opting out of that discussion because I think it is repeating itself. In short, I am not taking an official stance.

You can twist it any which you want but Its exactly because of pot we have a spike of homeless people over crowding the city. Its bringing in career criminals which increases crime which also puts stress on the legal system. We have some losers that somehow thought they could work some crappy job there and just enjoy being high all the time while still afford to live in a expensive city. And the tax payers are all going to suffer the consequences.

In this case, the realistic facts have been presented and you seem to be twisting the story, sensationalizing it to adapt to an agenda against marijuana. In actuality the picture is very clearly multifaceted. I think as we've seen over all of history, with any new popular industry, there will be a migration of people to the area where it's booming.

That is very rude to call those people losers. Who are you to pass judgement onto another? And to say that it's a crappy job, criminal...? That's rude. Why do you choose to be that way?

I would like to continue this discussion peacefully, thank you. If not I will spare us the time of going back and forth.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

My discussions are quite rational. But if you can't take the heat in a debate part of the forum I don't know what to say.  

I don't see how that justifies taking on an aggressive tone. Those kind of responses are attempts at asserting dominance, same with the haughtiness. It's really off putting.

My take on why I can't see the rationale in your argument is that they aren't directly correlative. I also feel like my common grounds are being ignored. Just some food for thought.

No I am not misinformed pot effects everyones reaction time and leads to the death of people just like I showed above. Or do you need to see more articles of grieving families with loved ones dead. But any excuse to get that high! Right!

There are no excuses being made. We are simply exchanging ideas. I do not have to be able to drive to justify getting high. I do it on my own accord, regardless.  

I acknowledged that there are similar effects of marijuana and of course I know that they slow one's reaction time. However I do not see that as a prevalent cause of death, and researchers who you've linked to have also noted that the effects are minor in comparison to other drugs. If xanax can be approved and safe for driving, then I'm sure that THC can.   I digress though. As I've said before, I also acknowledge that it is currently hard to determine how to police driving while on marijuana. So I am opting out of that discussion because I think it is repeating itself. In short, I am not taking an official stance.

You can twist it any which you want but Its exactly because of pot we have a spike of homeless people over crowding the city. Its bringing in career criminals which increases crime which also puts stress on the legal system. We have some losers that somehow thought they could work some crappy job there and just enjoy being high all the time while still afford to live in a expensive city. And the tax payers are all going to suffer the consequences.

In this case, the realistic facts have been presented and you seem to be twisting the story, sensationalizing it to adapt to an agenda against marijuana. In actuality the picture is very clearly multifaceted. I think as we've seen over all of history, with any new popular industry, there will be a migration of people to the area where it's booming.

That is very rude to call those people losers. Who are you to pass judgement onto another? And to say that it's a crappy job, criminal...? That's rude. Why do you choose to be that way?

I would like to continue this discussion peacefully, thank you. If not I will spare us the time of going back and forth.

I am a aggressive person. You will never catch me calling you nasty names unless that is something you start. But its the debate section things get aggressive on what we believe.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

And more evidence of it hurting kids and people on the roads.

Instead of following Colorado’s lead, perhaps we need to cool our heels and watch carefully what’s happening. Having implemented medical marijuana in 2000, Colorado has 13 years of data we can examine.

Past 30-day use of marijuana by teens 12 to 17 is highest in medical-marijuana states. In Denver between 2004 and 2010, past 30-day users of marijuana ages 12 and up increased 4.3 percent, while the increase for the nation was 0.05 percent.

By 2010, past 30-day use for this age group was 12.2 percent, compared to 6.6 percent for the country. One in six kids who start using marijuana becomes addicted.

On Dec. 19, Dr. Christian Thurstone, Colorado Child and Adolescent Psychiatric Society president and youth addiction researcher at the University of Colorado-Denver, observed that his clinic has been “inundated with young people reporting for marijuana-addiction treatment. ... Every day, we see the acute effects of the policy of legalization. And our kids are paying a great price.”

In Colorado’s schools, drug-related expulsions spiked 45 percent between 2008 and 2012. In a single academic year, a 10-year low in drug-related suspensions and expulsions flipped to a 10-year high. While the Colorado Department of Education includes all drugs in its data, officials report that most drug-related suspensions since the 2008-09 academic year are related to marijuana.

Sadly for Colorado residents, marijuana-impaired drivers and fatalities are on the rise. While overall traffic fatalities decreased 16 percent between 2006 and 2011, during these same six years, traffic fatalities with drivers testing positive for just marijuana increased 114 percent. http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20140106colorado-medical-marijuana-impact-children-polk.html

 

[Enter Username Here]

In the end its no worse than Alcohol.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

In the end its no worse than Alcohol.

Maybe, maybe not. But my issue is not about how bad it is. It is about how weak our justice system treats people under the influence and don't act responsible and who pays for it. I just want stronger laws and enforcement and then people can smoke it all they want and help thin out the heard.