Recreational cannabis

[+paradox]

@liberty, keep dodging me and keep posting away!

good job...

 

[Payton]

The very people coming there are saying they migrated there for the pot. These homeless people are admitting it themselves. Are they crazy and not telling the truth?

Every problem predicted is happening because of this.

Higher crime.
More car accidents.
More homeless people.
More medical issues related to pot.
Kids in school using pot thinking it is just fine and dandy.
More of the peoples money being used for police and such to handle the new problems related to pot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5595742.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5319298.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/03/colorad-marijuana-crime-declines_n_5554453.html
http://www.allgov.com/news/unusual-news/violent-crime-down-since-colorado-legalized-marijuana-140610?news=853366

And finally, from Denver's government itself:
http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

On the down side, sheriff's deputies in neighboring Nebraska say pot seizures near the Colorado border have shot up 400 percent in three years, while Wyoming and New Mexico report no significant increases.

In May, controls on marijuana edibles were tightened after two people died. In one case, a college student jumped from a hotel balcony after eating six times the suggested maximum amount of pot-laced cookies. In the other, a Denver man was charged with shooting dead his wife after apparently getting high from eating marijuana-infused candy.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5595742.html

So more people are getting caught with marijuana leaving Colorado. What a happy surprise for the police officers; the state was able to profit from those arrests. This is only a problem for the people who want to smoke weed.

The deaths are cases that are not necessarily marijuana's fault. They are the fault of the individuals who were most likely mentally ill and predisposed to doing what they did. I imagine that the psychoactivity of the THC is what irritated them and pushed the response, but you don't see mentally healthy, otherwise normal people doing these things. If that were the case then the amount of THC I've consumed would have probably made me a terrorist. If it wasn't cannabis then, their catalyst would probably be pure stress or alcohol/prescription drugs later in life.

Hickenlooper did not mention crime rates, but some opponents of legalization warned that cash-heavy cannabusinesses would invite robberies, leading to an increase in violence. Instead the frequency of burglaries and robberies at dispensaries has declined since they began serving recreational consumers in January. FBI data indicate that the overall crime rate in Denver, the center of Colorado’s marijuana industry, was 10 percent lower in the first five months of this year than in the same period of 2013.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/07/10/how-is-marijuana-legalization-going-so-far-the-price-of-pot-peace-looks-like-a-bargain/

About driving...

Do these data mean that legalizing marijuana for medical or recreational use results in more blood on the highways? No. What Salomonsen-Sautel et al. call “marijuana-positive drivers” actually tested positive for metabolites that linger in blood and urine long after the drug’s effects wear off. “THC metabolites are detectable in an individual’s blood or urine for several days and sometimes weeks for heavy marijuana users,” the authors note toward the end of the article. Hence a “marijuana-positive” result does not indicate the driver was under the influence of marijuana at the time of the accident, let alone that marijuana was a factor in the crash. “This study cannot determine cause and effect relationships, such as whether marijuana-positive drivers contributed to or caused the fatal motor vehicle crashes,” Salomonsen-Sautel et al. concede.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/07/10/how-is-marijuana-legalization-going-so-far-the-price-of-pot-peace-looks-like-a-bargain/

Which is basically what I've been saying this whole time.

And finally, about how the taxpayer's so called losses? Citing the same article from above:

Another benefit of legalization that can be measured in money is law enforcement savings, which various sources put somewhere between $12 million and $60 million a year in Colorado. Those estimates do not include the human costs associated with treating people like criminals for growing, selling, and consuming an arbitrarily proscribed plant. Prior to legalization police in Colorado were arresting 10,000 pot smokers a year. Today those criminals are customers of legitimate businesses, which are replacing the “corrupt system of gangsters” decried by Hickenlooper.

These were all the top results on Google "colorado crime rate 2014."

making it lively and heated is even fun.

Personally I just want to be able to present facts and have rational, structured point-counterpoint type debates.

I know you think of me as passive aggressive but I am child's play to the poster above me who seems to have this obsession about me and not the debate itself whatever it might be.

Well, I don't support any kind of trolling, but I don't agree that his/her post was solely about you. The bulk of it was about the topic IIRC.

 

[+paradox]

@payton...

 

[+paradox]

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

Pardon me while I fall out laughing.

What's to laugh at? All I've gotten in this conversation is passive aggressive remarks and he/she harassed another user about something not even relating to the subject. That's trolling!

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

You started Canada and I would do it again if you made a comment about something in a topic I did not agree with. Do not let me stop you if you feel like reporting me. Do it now and don't wait.

I would rather you left me alone altogether because you're acting like a jerk.

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

actually... 'enter username here' first said something about canada, not payton, but of course what ever you think has to be true, right there liberty?

I think Weed is great. I have smoked a lot of it in my life time. I suffer from OCD and GAD and if I smoke a spliff, it's all gone.

No excuse for smoking it, I just enjoy it.

But i'm Canadian. Thats what we all do up here, right?

Awesome! No excuse is necessary if you ask me. I have also been diagnosed with GAD, so I tend to go for indica dominant strains and extracts that are high in CBD. Too much THC can have me feeling sick. But I still love it, for some reason, so I'll still take a dab or knock back 100mg on a boring day.

I hear a lot of good things about Canada from a friend who's going to university there. Makes me envious!

 IMO, we have the nicest looking country, free health care and I must say...Our nation stands strong and is attractive.

  Now on strains, I love the exotic strains. Especially when you get a surprised flavor or sprouting colored hair. Some are more potent than others, but in the end its all got the same effect... Pulling out the chips, putting up the feet and enjoying life.

No such thing as free health care. Waiting lists, death panels and a shortage of doctors don't sound great. And your nation stands strong thanks to your southern friends who provide the safety for you and Europe.

and @liberty, just because they mentioned canada, doesn't mean they inserted the country in this debate, which canada is clearly not what the debate is about, it's about recreational cannabis...

but you had to go outside of the debate and attack canada, which had nothing to do with this debate, and in which some will call "trolling"...


as far as your traffic fatalities concern and how you think law enforcement ain't enforcing drunk driving and distraction driving, well, yet again, you're completely wrong, go figure?

US traffic fatalities drop sharply, reversing trend
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/us-traffic-fatalities-drop-sharply-reversing-trend-f8C11503973

U.S. traffic deaths fell by 4.2 percent during the first half of 2013, according to preliminary figures from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, reversing an unexpected upward surge the previous year.

Among the possible factors various sources cite:

• Improved passive safety systems in vehicles, including better vehicle designs and improved airbags;
• New active technologies, such as electronic stability control which is now required in all new vehicles, and even more advanced collision avoidance systems;
• Crackdowns on drunk and distracted driving.

more car deaths happen when the person or persons that created the crash was sober than car deaths by drunk/impaired drivers...

also, more accidents happen in the workplace when the persons are sober than otherwise...

maybe you're trying to make up things that could happen, but it does not hold water to what's really happening...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

Pardon me while I fall out laughing.

What's to laugh at? All I've gotten in this conversation is passive aggressive remarks and he/she harassed another user about something not even relating to the subject. That's trolling!

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

You started Canada and I would do it again if you made a comment about something in a topic I did not agree with. Do not let me stop you if you feel like reporting me. Do it now and don't wait.

I would rather you left me alone altogether because you're acting like a jerk.

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

actually... 'enter username here' first said something about canada, not payton, but of course what ever you think has to be true, right there liberty?

My mistake things get pretty mixed up in here when a debate gets rolling.

I think Weed is great. I have smoked a lot of it in my life time. I suffer from OCD and GAD and if I smoke a spliff, it's all gone.

No excuse for smoking it, I just enjoy it.

But i'm Canadian. Thats what we all do up here, right?

Awesome! No excuse is necessary if you ask me. I have also been diagnosed with GAD, so I tend to go for indica dominant strains and extracts that are high in CBD. Too much THC can have me feeling sick. But I still love it, for some reason, so I'll still take a dab or knock back 100mg on a boring day.

I hear a lot of good things about Canada from a friend who's going to university there. Makes me envious!

 IMO, we have the nicest looking country, free health care and I must say...Our nation stands strong and is attractive.

  Now on strains, I love the exotic strains. Especially when you get a surprised flavor or sprouting colored hair. Some are more potent than others, but in the end its all got the same effect... Pulling out the chips, putting up the feet and enjoying life.

No such thing as free health care. Waiting lists, death panels and a shortage of doctors don't sound great. And your nation stands strong thanks to your southern friends who provide the safety for you and Europe.

and @liberty, just because they mentioned canada, doesn't mean they inserted the country in this debate, which canada is clearly not what the debate is about, it's about recreational cannabis...

Yes it most certainly does.

but you had to go outside of the debate and attack canada, which had nothing to do with this debate, and in which some will call "trolling"...

I did not go out the debate I just continued with a different opinion with someone else who went out of the content of the debate.

as far as your traffic fatalities concern and how you think law enforcement ain't enforcing drunk driving and distraction driving, well, yet again, you're completely wrong, go figure?

US traffic fatalities drop sharply, reversing trend
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/us-traffic-fatalities-drop-sharply-reversing-trend-f8C11503973

U.S. traffic deaths fell by 4.2 percent during the first half of 2013, according to preliminary figures from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, reversing an unexpected upward surge the previous year.

Among the possible factors various sources cite:

• Improved passive safety systems in vehicles, including better vehicle designs and improved airbags;
• New active technologies, such as electronic stability control which is now required in all new vehicles, and even more advanced collision avoidance systems;
• Crackdowns on drunk and distracted driving.

more car deaths happen when the person or persons that created the crash was sober than car deaths by drunk/impaired drivers...

also, more accidents happen in the workplace when the persons are sober than otherwise...

maybe you're trying to make up things that could happen, but it does not hold water to what's really happening...

Thats the entire United States not the state we are discussing.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Higher crime.

Now the Liberal Denver Post tried to down play it but this is a huge increase in crime.

According to the figures provided by the city's Department of Safety, Denver recorded about 7,000 reported crimes within 1,000 feet of dispensaries in the first six months of both 2012 and 2013. Violent crimes near dispensaries saw a minuscule uptick in 2013 compared with 2012. Property crimes saw a slight decrease. Overall, crime near dispensaries was up 1.8 percent, in line with the slight increase in crime in the whole city for that period.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23771049/slight-increase-crimes-near-medical-marijuana-dispensaries

There is the Denver man who, hours after buying a package of marijuana-infused Karma Kandy from one of Colorado’s new recreational marijuana shops, began raving about the end of the world and then pulled a handgun from the family safe and killed his wife, the authorities say. Some hospital officials say they are treating growing numbers of children and adults sickened by potent doses of edible marijuana. Sheriffs in neighboring states complain about stoned drivers streaming out of Colorado and through their towns.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/us/after-5-months-of-sales-colorado-sees-the-downside-of-a-legal-high.html?_r=0

A recent crime rate report released by the Rocky Mountain High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas (HIDTA) program states that in the first six months of 2014, overall crime in Denver has increased nearly 7 percent compared to last year. This rise in crime coincides with the legalization of recreational marijuana in Colorado. The HIDTA program is part of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

“While there is no direct cause and effect that can be identified at this time, the rise in Denver crime certainly correlates with the legalization of marijuana. The Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police (AACOP) is very concerned that Alaska will see a similar increase in crime if ballot measure 2 passes,” said Kalie Klaysmat, executive director of AACOP. “We also expect that law enforcement needs caused by legalization could cost taxpayers as much as $6 million dollars in increased public safety costs.”

Crime rates in Colorado since the legalization of recreational marijuana have been controversial, with marijuana supporters claiming that crime has remained stable or even declined. Tom Gorman, director of the Rocky Mountain HIDTA, explained that legalization advocates are cherry-picking data and are not looking at all reported crime categories in Denver. In contrast, the Rocky Mountain HIDTA report provides a comprehensive picture of what’s happening with crime in Denver and shows that overall crime has increased since last year
http://www.deltadiscovery.com/story/2014/09/03/crime/crime-rates-in-denver-up-since-marijuana-legalization/2436.html

More car accidents.

Legalization will entail additional
spending to update and enforce dr
ugged driving regulations because
there is evidence that consuming marijuana before
driving doubles the chances of collision (20). In
states with per se drugged driving laws, court costs may also increase on account of due process issues
raised by the presumption that the presence of mar
ijuana metabolites in one’s blood stream are evidence
of intoxication (21). Other court and law enforcement costs may also rise due to the shift in drug
enforcement spending to tax enforcement spending (22).
http://www.globaldrugpolicy.org/Issues/Vol%207%20Issue%204/The%20Economic%20Impacts%20of%20Marijuana%20Legalization%20final%20for%20journal.pdf

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/01/27/aje.kwt327.abstract?sid=310cc5fd-bfdb-4cf9-a3d9-7f60790a3cd5

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/38/8/569.full

Corrigendum to “Trends in fatal motor vehicle crashes before and after marijuana commercialization in Colorado”

Background

Legal medical marijuana has been commercially available on a widespread basis in Colorado since mid-2009; however, there is a dearth of information about the impact of marijuana commercialization on impaired driving. This study examined if the proportions of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive and alcohol-impaired, respectively, have changed in Colorado before and after mid-2009 and then compared changes in Colorado with 34 non-medical marijuana states (NMMS).
Methods

Thirty-six 6-month intervals (1994–2011) from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System were used to examine temporal changes in the proportions of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were alcohol-impaired (≥0.08 g/dl) and marijuana-positive, respectively. The pre-commercial marijuana time period in Colorado was defined as 1994–June 2009 while July 2009–2011 represented the post-commercialization period.
Results

In Colorado, since mid-2009 when medical marijuana became commercially available and prevalent, the trend became positive in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive (change in trend, 2.16 (0.45), p < 0.0001); in contrast, no significant changes were seen in NMMS. For both Colorado and NMMS, no significant changes were seen in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were alcohol-impaired.
Conclusions

Prevention efforts and policy changes in Colorado are needed to address this concerning trend in marijuana-positive drivers. In addition, education on the risks of marijuana-positive driving needs to be implemented.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376871614008345

Marijuana use involved in more fatal accidents since commercialization of medical marijuana
Date:
May 15, 2014
Source:
University of Colorado Denver
Summary:
The proportion of marijuana-positive drivers involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes in Colorado has increased dramatically since the commercialization of medical marijuana in the middle of 2009, according to a study. The study raises important concerns about the increase in the proportion of drivers in a fatal motor vehicle crash who were marijuana-positive since the commercialization of medical marijuana in Colorado, particularly in comparison to the 34 non-medical marijuana states.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm

More homeless people.

Officials at some Denver homeless shelters say the legalization of marijuana has contributed to an increase in the number of younger people living on the city's streets.

One organization dealing with the increase is Urban Peak, which provides food, shelter and other services to homeless people aged 15 to 24 in Denver and Colorado Springs.

"Of the new kids we're seeing, the majority are saying they're here because of the weed," deputy director Kendall Rames told The Denver Post (http://dpo.st/1l1vQER ). "They're traveling through. It is very unfortunate."

The Salvation Army's single men's shelter in Denver has been serving more homeless this summer, and officials have noted an increase in the number of 18- to 25-year-olds there.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/28/marijuana-legalization-homeless-denver_n_5626948.html

Legal pot drives up number of homeless in Denver
Homeless shelter officials say legalizing marijuana responsible for rise of young people living on the streets. There aren’t enough jobs to support those who come to buy weed.

[Image: legal-pot-raises-homeless-numbers-denver...1.1881281#]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/legal-pot-raises-homeless-numbers-denver-article-1.1881281#

Legal pot blamed for some of influx of homeless in Denver this summer

[Image: 20140725__marijuana-denver-marijuana-colorado~p1.jpg]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26216037/legal-pot-blamed-some-influx-homeless-this-summer

Legalized marijuana draws homeless Texans to Colorado – KPRC Houston
Posted by priceinsanity on September 23, 2014
Posted in: Texas MMJ News. Tagged: Texas Marijuana News Cannabidiol Dispensary. Leave a Comment

DENVER, Colorado –

Colorado is seeing a significant increase in the number of homeless people arriving from Texas and the head of two homeless shelters said a big reason for the increase is homeless people wanting to smoke pot.

“It wasn’t the only reason but it was one of the main factors,” Runa Renee Townsend, a homeless woman from Fort Worth, said of her reason for moving to Colorado.

At the Salvation Army’s overnight shelter, they have seen their numbers nearly double.
http://txdispensaries.com/legalized-marijuana-draws-homeless-texans-to-colorado-kprc-houston/

More medical issues related to pot.

Impact on Public Health
A number of studies have noted significant correlations
between marijuana use and many severe health
and social problems (35). The negative impact of
expanded marijuana use will have a severe and
pervasive impact on public health from which there
will be no turning back. Studies show impacts from
marijuana use such as immune system damage, (36) birth defects, (37) infertility, (38) cardiovascular
disease, (39) stroke, (40) and testicular cancer (41).
Researchers have also found that chronic exposure to
marijuana smoke can increase the risk of developing respiratory obstruction, emphysema, lung cancer,
collapsed lungs, and bullous lung disease ("bong lung") (42). A recent study shows that marijuana smoke
has ammonia levels 20 times higher than tobacco smoke
. Marijuana has hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide,
and aromatic amines at 3-5 times higher than tobacco smoke (43)
http://www.globaldrugpolicy.org/Issues/Vol%207%20Issue%204/The%20Economic%20Impacts%20of%20Marijuana%20Legalization%20final%20for%20journal.pdf

Marijuana ER visits on the rise
By Dr. Dan Hehir

In January of 2014, Colorado became the first state to allow the retail sale of marijuana for recreational use. At the Telluride Medical Center, one trend that has accompanied the legalization is an increase in the number of patients seen for marijuana related complications.

The problem seems to be associated with high dosage edible marijuana products.

Marijuana is not just sold in its natural, smokable state. It's also made available as ingestible marijuana cookies, brownies, sodas, candies, gummy bears, pastries, olive oil, spaghetti sauce, tinctures, and more. Edibles generally have high doses of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main active ingredient in marijuana.

It's important from a public health perspective to examine why this is and to educate the public on some pitfalls associated with using marijuana.

I have served in emergency departments for over 15 years. During those first ten years I don't recall treating a single case of an adverse reaction to marijuana. This changed as medicinal marijuana use became more prevalent. Now, after the legalization of recreational marijuana, I'm noticing a dramatic increase in emergency visits related to the drug.

The effects of ingesting THC, compared to smoking it, take much longer to manifest. Often people keep ingesting only to realize too late that they took too much.

Not unlike alcohol, you can get widely differing effects from marijuana depending on how it's used and the dosage.

Smoking marijuana gives the user a dose of roughly 5mg, although this depends greatly on the concentration of THC in the marijuana and how it's smoked. Colorado law limits the THC content in an edible to 100mg.

Eating just one 100mg edible would be like smoking 20 hits of marijuana. This may be possible for a heavy user, but for many it's enough to create problems.
http://tellmed.org/patient-information/local-health-concerns-1/marijuana-edibles-sends-some-to-er

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The one thing that liberals never seem to understand is that an ideologically sound policy still has negative consequences. There are libertarians who need to understand that as well.

In real life, the behavior of people transforms what seems like a reasonable plan into a mess. People don’t act along ideological lines. For the most part they pursue their own self-interest. And self-interest doesn’t necessarily lead to heroic acts of free enterprise.

Sometimes it means that if you legalize pot, a lot of potheads will show up and the tax revenues from that legal pot will be eaten up by the potheads.

Kids in school using pot thinking it is just fine and dandy.

Pot problems in Colorado schools increase with legalization. In two years of work as an undercover officer with a drug task force, Mike Dillon encountered plenty of drugs. But nothing has surprised him as much as what he has seen in schools lately.

Dillon, who is now a school resource officer with the Mesa County Sheriff's Department, said he is seeing more and younger kids bringing marijuana to schools, in sometimes-surprising quantities.

"When we have middle school kids show up with a half an ounce, that is shocking to me," Dillon said.

The same phenomenon is being reported around Colorado after the 2010 regulation of medical marijuana dispensaries and the 2012 vote to legalize recreational marijuana.

There are no hard numbers yet because school disciplinary statistics do not isolate marijuana from general drug violations. But school resource officers, counselors, nurses, staff and officials with Colorado school safety and disciplinary programs are anecdotally reporting an increase in marijuana-related incidents in middle and high schools.

"We have seen a sharp rise in drug-related disciplinary actions which, anecdotally, from credible sources, is being attributed to the changing social norms surrounding marijuana," said Janelle Krueger. Krueger is the program manager for Expelled and At-Risk Student Services for the Colorado Department of Education and also a longtime adviser to the Colorado Association of School Resource Officers. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24501596/pot-problems-colorado-schools-increase-legalization.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

Pardon me while I fall out laughing.

What's to laugh at? All I've gotten in this conversation is passive aggressive remarks and he/she harassed another user about something not even relating to the subject. That's trolling!

I'll leave it alone with the rest of your argument because I feel like I'm conversing with an angry child. I wasn't the one who made the comment about Canada but if you continue to post off topic trolls I will report you.

You started Canada and I would do it again if you made a comment about something in a topic I did not agree with. Do not let me stop you if you feel like reporting me. Do it now and don't wait.

I would rather you left me alone altogether because you're acting like a jerk.

Giving my opinion in a place called DEBATE is a problem. LOL!

actually... 'enter username here' first said something about canada, not payton, but of course what ever you think has to be true, right there liberty?

I think Weed is great. I have smoked a lot of it in my life time. I suffer from OCD and GAD and if I smoke a spliff, it's all gone.

No excuse for smoking it, I just enjoy it.

But i'm Canadian. Thats what we all do up here, right?

Awesome! No excuse is necessary if you ask me. I have also been diagnosed with GAD, so I tend to go for indica dominant strains and extracts that are high in CBD. Too much THC can have me feeling sick. But I still love it, for some reason, so I'll still take a dab or knock back 100mg on a boring day.

I hear a lot of good things about Canada from a friend who's going to university there. Makes me envious!

 IMO, we have the nicest looking country, free health care and I must say...Our nation stands strong and is attractive.

  Now on strains, I love the exotic strains. Especially when you get a surprised flavor or sprouting colored hair. Some are more potent than others, but in the end its all got the same effect... Pulling out the chips, putting up the feet and enjoying life.

No such thing as free health care. Waiting lists, death panels and a shortage of doctors don't sound great. And your nation stands strong thanks to your southern friends who provide the safety for you and Europe.

and @liberty, just because they mentioned canada, doesn't mean they inserted the country in this debate, which canada is clearly not what the debate is about, it's about recreational cannabis...

but you had to go outside of the debate and attack canada, which had nothing to do with this debate, and in which some will call "trolling"...


as far as your traffic fatalities concern and how you think law enforcement ain't enforcing drunk driving and distraction driving, well, yet again, you're completely wrong, go figure?

US traffic fatalities drop sharply, reversing trend
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/us-traffic-fatalities-drop-sharply-reversing-trend-f8C11503973

U.S. traffic deaths fell by 4.2 percent during the first half of 2013, according to preliminary figures from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, reversing an unexpected upward surge the previous year.

Among the possible factors various sources cite:

• Improved passive safety systems in vehicles, including better vehicle designs and improved airbags;
• New active technologies, such as electronic stability control which is now required in all new vehicles, and even more advanced collision avoidance systems;
• Crackdowns on drunk and distracted driving.

more car deaths happen when the person or persons that created the crash was sober than car deaths by drunk/impaired drivers...

also, more accidents happen in the workplace when the persons are sober than otherwise...

maybe you're trying to make up things that could happen, but it does not hold water to what's really happening...

as far as your traffic fatalities concern and how you think law enforcement ain't enforcing drunk driving and distraction driving, well, yet again, you're completely wrong, go figure?

And I never said law enforcement is not doing there job I said our justice system meaning our courts is not doing there job. Big difference you tried to misrepresent what I said.

 

[Payton]

Again, I'm going to post data that was distributed by the city of Denver, unlike the image you linked which has no citation.

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

All of those models show a decrease in the amount of crime.

The man who ate an edible was already mentally ill. This argument is actually so exaggerated that it hurts me to see people use it. It reminds me of Reefer Madness, and the racist, sensationalized propaganda that was used in the 1930s to make marijuana illegal in the first place.

Of course high doses of THC in non-tolerant people will make them feel sick. It increases your heart rate and blood pressure which is naturally anxiogenic. Combined with the psychoactivity of THC and you have paranoid, overly anxious people. It can happen to adults too, hence why you're supposed to gradually increase your dose and determine if your body digests THC well. THC itself will not cause harm to the body which is why there are no recorded incidents of this happening. It's all in the mind.

The rise in homelessness is not the cause of marijuana. Marijuana may be what's bringing these individuals to Colorado, but the fact of the matter is that marijuana isn't the reason they can't find work. I don't know how you can't understand this.

Kids have been using pot for ages. Whether it's legal or not won't stop them. Same with alcohol, LSD, adderall, xanax, mushrooms, research chemicals, MDMA, etc. If they aren't able to get it from a state regulated source that has standards on their product, they'll go online or to a drug dealer to obtain it. Surely the increased availability will show an increase of usage among all demographics, but it will reduce people's exposure to the black market, which is run by criminals and shows them a world of other (actually harmful) drugs too.

I'm not going to bother going into each one of your articles again because I have for the majority of them, and I'd be repeating myself. Frankly it's getting annoying having to continually dismantle the same argument.

 

[+paradox]

@payton, exactly, and when you do prove him wrong, he denies saying what he says, like him saying he never said that the police in america don't enforce the current dui/dwi laws...

and he is in denial, for the most part because the facts tells him something other than his beliefs, which most turn to denial mode...

i think i'm pretty much over this thread too, as liberty clearly doesn't know what he's talking about and is very bad at debating...

everything effects everyone differently, including weed...

just because you smoked pot for a hundred of years doesn't mean you know exactly what happens to everyone when they smoke or when they're high, because, again, everyone is different...

if you want to blame the car companies for making a car, or a beer company for making the beer, or just blame the person that did the crime or created the accident...

if weed was completely legalized, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because weed is everywhere and people will smoke it no matter what, and they are... why not make it legal and tax it so the economy can get a boost to help the society out and not have so many people in jail for petty crimes like possession of cannabis, which is completely dumb...

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

but yeah, i'm totally misrepresenting what you say...  

 

[+paradox]

@payton, exactly...

liberty likes to deny what he says like he likes to deny facts... when facts goes against one's beliefs, they go into denial mode, it's pretty simple to me that's what's happening here...

everything effects everyone differently, including weed...

just because you smoked pot for a hundred of years doesn't mean you know exactly what happens to everyone when they smoke or when they're high, because, again, everyone is different...

if you want to blame the car companies for making a car, or a beer company for making the beer, or just blame the person that did the crime or created the accident...

if weed was completely legalized, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because weed is everywhere and people will smoke it no matter what, and they are... why not make it legal and tax it so the economy can get a boost to help the society out and not have so many people in jail for petty crimes like possession of cannabis, which is completely dumb...

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

but yeah, i'm totally misrepresenting what you say...  

 

[Enter Username Here]

What a debate going on here!

We going for politician status as well?

This is my summary: I see no dangers in a little weed, if you are going to abuse it, don't be smoking it. This gateway drug stuff is bogus. I do smoke weed and I enjoy smoking weed. It doesn't effect my personal life, it doesn't effect my addiction to alcohol and it doesn't effect my performance in anyway. But its all how you use it and the reasons you use it.

I use it to unwind, it unwinds me and in the meanwhile, it gives me great enjoyment.

If you're mentally ill to the extreme, I'd adjust just being smart and not using it. But if your confident you're using it just to have a good time and you're not going to have a bad trip or paranoia, then I suggest...Find your local dealer, some papers and roll yourself some Mary. Shes a loyal friend!

 

[+paradox]

not really a debate, more like a "massacre"...

 

[+paradox]

@smooth, take a hit for us will ya?

 

[Payton]

If nothing else, this topic certainly creates some vigorous debate!  And in a place where debate is the name of the game, that's a really good thing.

Now if y'all will excuse me, I prefer smoking the stuff much more than talking about it.  rag:

*passes blunt*

 

[+paradox]

now lets get liberty contact buzzed...

 

[Enter Username Here]

I'm always smoking . *points to avatar*

Pretty good picture, eh?

 

[+paradox]

yeah, but his glasses could be a better color, like red or yellow...

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

@payton, exactly...

liberty likes to deny what he says like he likes to deny facts... when facts goes against one's beliefs, they go into denial mode, it's pretty simple to me that's what's happening here...

everything effects everyone differently, including weed...

just because you smoked pot for a hundred of years doesn't mean you know exactly what happens to everyone when they smoke or when they're high, because, again, everyone is different...

if you want to blame the car companies for making a car, or a beer company for making the beer, or just blame the person that did the crime or created the accident...

if weed was completely legalized, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because weed is everywhere and people will smoke it no matter what, and they are... why not make it legal and tax it so the economy can get a boost to help the society out and not have so many people in jail for petty crimes like possession of cannabis, which is completely dumb...

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

but yeah, i'm totally misrepresenting what you say...  

Yes you do totally misrepresent all the time. My complaint was never about the police stopping and finding people who drive under the influence. It was what happens or lack there of on what happens to them when they get into the justice system.

 

[WHO IS SERAFIN]

Again, I'm going to post data that was distributed by the city of Denver, unlike the image you linked which has no citation.

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

All of those models show a decrease in the amount of crime.

The man who ate an edible was already mentally ill. This argument is actually so exaggerated that it hurts me to see people use it. It reminds me of Reefer Madness, and the racist, sensationalized propaganda that was used in the 1930s to make marijuana illegal in the first place.

Of course high doses of THC in non-tolerant people will make them feel sick. It increases your heart rate and blood pressure which is naturally anxiogenic. Combined with the psychoactivity of THC and you have paranoid, overly anxious people. It can happen to adults too, hence why you're supposed to gradually increase your dose and determine if your body digests THC well. THC itself will not cause harm to the body which is why there are no recorded incidents of this happening. It's all in the mind.

The rise in homelessness is not the cause of marijuana. Marijuana may be what's bringing these individuals to Colorado, but the fact of the matter is that marijuana isn't the reason they can't find work. I don't know how you can't understand this.

Kids have been using pot for ages. Whether it's legal or not won't stop them. Same with alcohol, LSD, adderall, xanax, mushrooms, research chemicals, MDMA, etc. If they aren't able to get it from a state regulated source that has standards on their product, they'll go online or to a drug dealer to obtain it. Surely the increased availability will show an increase of usage among all demographics, but it will reduce people's exposure to the black market, which is run by criminals and shows them a world of other (actually harmful) drugs too.

I'm not going to bother going into each one of your articles again because I have for the majority of them, and I'd be repeating myself. Frankly it's getting annoying having to continually dismantle the same argument.

These are the crime stats they have increased. Some have gone down like murder but crime has increased. It is not even a question.

And its on American thinker I have posted the link twice before on this topic if you would like to look at past pages. But posting your version of the stats from the very city who wants this to continue is like Obama giving his version of how great obama care is doing.

You are talking about one person who got sick. As one of my article states doctors are seeing the biggest spike of emergency visits they have ever seen for pot.

More excuses on good pot really is.   Even though studies constantly come out on how harmful it is the body. As I said I wonder for how long the people who smoke cigarettes denied it was not bad for you. The only difference is one can be dangerous for the public and the other is not.

It is the one and only reason because of the reason they have a high increase in homlessness. I dont know how you can be blind to that very fact. No pot before less homelessness in Colorado. Pot legal in Colorado sharp increase in homelessness.

Yes some dumb kids have been using pot during the teenage years. But as the cops are saying in the article they have never seen it at this level before. And as the cop said the kids are now under the assumption since it legal there must be nothing wrong with them to do it if the adults can smoke it.

Pot problems in Colorado schools increase with legalization. In two years of work as an undercover officer with a drug task force, Mike Dillon encountered plenty of drugs. But nothing has surprised him as much as what he has seen in schools lately.

Dillon, who is now a school resource officer with the Mesa County Sheriff's Department, said he is seeing more and younger kids bringing marijuana to schools, in sometimes-surprising quantities.

"When we have middle school kids show up with a half an ounce, that is shocking to me," Dillon said.

The same phenomenon is being reported around Colorado after the 2010 regulation of medical marijuana dispensaries and the 2012 vote to legalize recreational marijuana.

There are no hard numbers yet because school disciplinary statistics do not isolate marijuana from general drug violations. But school resource officers, counselors, nurses, staff and officials with Colorado school safety and disciplinary programs are anecdotally reporting an increase in marijuana-related incidents in middle and high schools.

"We have seen a sharp rise in drug-related disciplinary actions which, anecdotally, from credible sources, is being attributed to the changing social norms surrounding marijuana," said Janelle Krueger. Krueger is the program manager for Expelled and At-Risk Student Services for the Colorado Department of Education and also a longtime adviser to the Colorado Association of School Resource Officers. http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_24501596/pot-problems-colorado-schools-increase-legalization.

You have not dismantled you have claimed falsehoods and excuses. But I will say again I could except all of this for the freedom to use it if we enforced and got tougher on the drunk drivers we have on the road. Which we do not. And in case any one missed it here is the lack of enforcement once again.


   Quoterunk driver's light sentence triggers protest in Olympia http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Drunk-drivers-light-sentence-triggers-protest-in-Olympia-259543311.html


   Quote:Sentences must be tougher for drunk drivers


   It is sometimes said that in Acadiana, no one goes to jail for drunk driving until they kill someone.

   And those who do go to jail, as it turns out, often don’t stay long.

   That hardly qualifies as justice.

   Tyson Dupuis of Crowley, who was convicted twice on drunk driving charges, served only 13 months for killing Mitchell “Shelly” Romero with his vehicle while he was drunk. He was recently released in spite of a 10-year sentence for vehicular homicide, with five years suspended and three to be served without possibility of probation, parole or suspension, imposed by 15th Judicial District Court Judge Edward Rubin.

   Even that full sentence should not be considered a harsh enough penalty for recklessly causing the loss of a life.

   The case is not unique.

   Karen Stelly of Duson was recently notified that Sean Holloway, also of Duson, who killed her daughter in a vehicular homicide, will be released in 2015, after serving only 15 months of a three-year sentence imposed without probation or parole by Judge Marilyn Castle.

   Meanwhile, Dupuis is back in jail, awaiting a hearing to clarify his sentence. District Attorney Mike Harson recently told The Daily Advertiser his staff believes Dupuis’ release was due to an error on the part of the Louisiana Department of Corrections.

   But maybe not.

   Even when a judge sentences an offender to time without possibility of probation or parole, an inmate can earn an early release through good behavior. http://www.dailyworld.com/story/opinion/2014/09/24/sentences-must-tougher-drunk-drivers/16181779/


   Quoterunken driver sentenced in accident that killed Belton man

   Ronald O&rsquo;Kelly (left) was given suspended sentences and must serve 120 days in jail in the April 2013 hit-and-run accident that killed motorcyclist Leroy &ldquo;Buddy&rdquo; Bronson. After he serves 120, he will be given probation. On Friday, O&rsquo;Kelly exited the Jackson County courtroom with his attorney, John Picerno.
   › ‹

   Ronald O&rsquo;Kelly (left) was given suspended sentences and must serve 120 days in jail in the April 2013 hit-and-run accident that killed motorcyclist Leroy &ldquo;Buddy&rdquo; Bronson. After he serves 120, he will be given probation. On Friday, O&rsquo;Kelly exited the Jackson County courtroom with his attorney, John Picerno. JILL TOYOSHIBA The Kansas City Star


   For members of the Leroy “Buddy” Bronson family, it was one more incomprehensible tragedy.

   On Friday, they watched and lamented the sentencing of the man who pleaded guilty in the hit-and-run accident that killed Bronson last year. He also pleaded to involuntary vehicular manslaughter due to intoxication.

   Three years ago, another drunken driver killed Bronson’s wife and daughter.

   Now the man convicted of killing Bronson is getting what they considered a light sentence: two suspended sentences, and then 120 days in jail and followed by probation.

   “It’s unthinkable,” said Tyler Bronson, a stepson of Bronson. “It teaches other drunk drivers that if they get in a wreck — fatality or nonfatality — to just run and you will get a light sentence.”

   But the judge and prosecutors, while expressing their sympathy, said they were restrained by the evidence available to them.

   Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/crime/article716741.html#storylink=cpy



   Quoterunk driver to be sentenced for manslaughter in passenger's death in Skaneateles

   Elbridge, NY -- An Elbridge man will go to state prison for 2 to 6 years after admitting he drove drunk in a crash with a milk truck that killed his passenger.

   Micahel Stern, 25, pleaded guilty last month to vehicular manslaughter in the April 24, 2013 crash that killed his friend Patrick Hallinan, 26, also of Elbridge.

   State police found that Stern was speeding and drunk when the minivan he was driving crashed into the tanker portion of a Bryne Dairy truck at Jordan and Stump roads at 1:59 a.m. on April 24, 2013. His blood alcohol content was 0.17, more than twice the legal limit, according to state police.

   The two had been drinking at a party and were on their way back from picking up wooden pallets for a bonfire when the crash occurred.

   Stern was critically injured in the crash and spent two weeks in a coma at Upstate University Hospital.

   Stern was free on bail but sent to jail with no bail following his plea.
   http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/drunken_driver_to_be_sentenced_for_manslaughter_in_passengers_death_in_skaneatel.html



   Quote:Family's outrage after drunk hit-and-run driver is sentenced to just 120 DAYS in prison for killing man who lost wife and daughter in similar incident

      Leroy Bronson, 57, was killed last year when drunk driver Ronald O'Kelly, 25, sped through a red light and crashed into his motorcycle
      Instead of calling for help, O'Kelly fled the scene
      Just two years earlier, Bronson lost his wife Diane and 11-year-old daughter Anna in a similar accident
      On Friday, O'Kelly was sentenced to just 120 day in prison and probation
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690645/Familys-outrage-drunk-hit-run-driver-sentenced-just-120-days-prison-killing-man-lost-wife-11-year-old-daughter-similar-incident.html


   Quote:In Wisconsin statehouse, laws on drunken driving seen as tough enough
   Legislators have rejected efforts to hike penalties, even for repeat offenders
   Kenneth Carpenter died in 2010, after 14 years of sobriety. In the 2013-14 legislative session, Tim Carpenter co-sponsored a number of bills, authored by Republicans, to toughen Wisconsin’s laws regarding drunken driving.

   These included a bill to make all persons cited with first-offense operating while intoxicated, or OWI, appear in court, which some can now avoid. The bill drew unanimous support from committees in both legislative houses and passed the Assembly on a voice vote.

   And then it died — along with every bill in the package and virtually every other proposal in the session to toughen Wisconsin’s drunken driving laws.

   Carpenter, on the cusp of his fourth decade as a state lawmaker, is dismayed. “People were overwhelmingly in favor of this legislation,” he said of the package. “We blew a golden opportunity.”
   http://wisconsinwatch.org/2014/11/in-wisconsin-statehouse-laws-on-drunken-driving-seen-as-tough-enough/



   Quote:Some judges skirt law with light OWI penalties

   Wisconsin judges don't always issue stiff penalities for chronic drunken drivers.

   Convicted of a seventh drunken driving offense in 2012, 42-year-old Corey Dekeyser still should have been in prison last month under a state law mandating a prison sentence of at least three years.

   But Brown County Judge Donald Zuidmulder sentenced the Green Bay man to two years behind bars and made him eligible for an early-release program that set him free after nine months.

   So Dekeyser was back behind the wheel Oct. 5 in Howard when Brown County sheriff's deputies found him passed out in the driver's seat of a running vehicle, according to a criminal complaint in the pending case. A preliminary breath test revealed Dekeyser had a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.17, more than twice the level considered legally intoxicated in Wisconsin.
   http://www.postcrescent.com/longform/news/investigations/2014/11/07/judges-skirt-law-light-owi-penalties/18602405/



   Quote:Man gets 3-1/2 years for fatal drunken driving crash in Warren

   A Farmington Hills man was ordered to spend 43 months to 15 years in prison for being drunk and causing a one-car crash in Warren that killed a 20-year-old woman.

   Cuong M. Nguyen, 35, was escorted to prison at the end of a sentencing hearing in court that included intense debate among attorneys respectively arguing for shorter and longer sentences.

   http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20140827/man-gets-3-12-years-for-fatal-drunken-driving-crash-in-warren




   Quote:Grieving family disgusted hit-and-run driver gets 120 days in jail

   KANSAS CITY, MO (KCTV) -

   A family shared their disgust and outrage that a drunk driver who fled the scene of a fatal hit-and-run crash will only get 120 days in jail.
   MORE
   Man accused of driving drunk, killing man whose daughter, wife died due to drunk driver

   A Kansas City man was drunk and talking on his cell phone when he ran a red light and plowed into a motorcycle rider, killing him, according to Jackson County prosecutors.

   The Jackson County Prosecutor's Office on Monday charged Ronald J. O'Kelly, 24, of Kansas City was charged with first-degree involuntary manslaughter and leaving the scene of a motor vehicle accident.
   Continue reading >>
   Inside KLTV.com
   Family and friends say goodbye to mother and daughter
   Man involved in deadly fourth of July crash identified
   Man sentenced for deadly Fourth of July crash
   Belton man's death in hit-and-run second family tragedy
   Belton man mourns wife, daughter killed in wrong-way crash
   Wrong-way driver pleads guilty to killing mother, daughter

   Because Ronald O'Kelly fled the scene, prosecutors could not prove via blood tests his alcohol content when he struck Leroy "Buddy" Bronson in April 2013.

   The man who was drunk and drove the wrong way on the Fourth of July in 2011 and killed Bronson's wife, Diane, and 11-year-old daughter, Anna, got 15 years in prison.

   The difference? The 2011 driver was badly injured and couldn't flee the scene, and prosecutors could prove he was drunk based on a blood test. The 2011 driver had a public defender, while O'Kelly was represented by attorney John Picerno, who is best known for serving as defense attorney for the parents of Lisa Irwin, who was 10 months old when she went missing in October 2011.
   http://www.kltv.com/story/26004203/family-disgusted-hit-and-run-driver-gets-120-days-in-jail



   QuoteWI drivers who kill can get off easy

      Article by: PAM LOUWAGIE and GLENN HOWATT , Star Tribune s taff w riters
      Updated: March 24, 2010 - 9:48 AM

   In nearly 60 percent of cases calling for four years in prison, drivers serve a year or less in jail.

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   A first-time felon robbed a St. Paul bank with an apologetic note to a teller and was sentenced to more than three years in federal prison.

   The president of a home-building company swindled lenders out of $6 million in a complicated mortgage scam and was sentenced to seven years in state prison.

   A Minneapolis mom got drunk and plowed her Audi into a bus shelter, killing a pedestrian. A judge sentenced her to a year in jail, but told her she would have to spend only eight months at the county workhouse.

   Those sentences are fairly typical in Minnesota, where drunken drivers who kill someone with their car sometimes get less time behind bars than nonviolent offenders.

   Public safety advocates say it's part of a culture of forgiveness surrounding drunken driving, a social problem that killed 893 people on Minnesota roads in the past five years and injured thousands more.

   In drunken-driving deaths, state sentencing guidelines call for a four-year prison term for offenders with no criminal history, but nearly 60 percent of those convicted from 2004 through 2008 received no prison time at all, a Star Tribune analysis shows. Usually, the sentences include long probations with various conditions and up to a year in jail. Unlike many states, Minnesota has no minimum sentence for the crime.
   http://www.startribune.com/local/88734587.html



   Quoterunk driver sentenced after killing West Palm Beach mother

   WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Anthony Giglio of Wellington was sentenced Wednesday to eleven years in prison after he pleaded guilty to driving drunk in 2013.

   Giglio ran a red light and slammed into a mother and daughter.

   Sandy Suarez was killed in the crash, and her three-year-old daughter survived but was injured.

   "I know she knows her mom is gone. I know that opened her eyes and she realized she wasn't going to go home with her mom," Jazzmin Suarez, the victim's sister, said.

   Giglio pleaded guilty and the judge acknowledged he took responsibility for what he did.

   http://www.wptv.com/news/region-c-palm-beach-county/west-palm-beach/drunk-driver-sentenced-after-killing-west-palm-beach-mother

 

[+paradox]

@payton, exactly...

liberty likes to deny what he says like he likes to deny facts... when facts goes against one's beliefs, they go into denial mode, it's pretty simple to me that's what's happening here...

everything effects everyone differently, including weed...

just because you smoked pot for a hundred of years doesn't mean you know exactly what happens to everyone when they smoke or when they're high, because, again, everyone is different...

if you want to blame the car companies for making a car, or a beer company for making the beer, or just blame the person that did the crime or created the accident...

if weed was completely legalized, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because weed is everywhere and people will smoke it no matter what, and they are... why not make it legal and tax it so the economy can get a boost to help the society out and not have so many people in jail for petty crimes like possession of cannabis, which is completely dumb...

One thing that effects everyone the same is It makes everyone high and that means a possible risk on the job site or on the road. That means other peoples lives are at risk if someone does not take that freedom with responsibility.

Well you already know my opinion on the lack of enforcing the current laws on drunk drivers. Light sentences run rampant across this nation while the innocent pay the price. And until we tackle the problem of tough enforcement for irresponsible people another addictive drug that effects peoples reactions and judgments.

but yeah, i'm totally misrepresenting what you say...  

Yes you do totally misrepresent all the time. My complaint was never about the police stopping and finding people who drive under the influence. It was what happens or lack there of on what happens to them when they get into the justice system.

then learn how to word your complaints correctly, no one here are mind readers...

you claim that law enforcement ain't enforcing drunk driving and i told you facts that they really are fighting the issue, then you want to change what you "say" and "mean"... not my fault...

why do you never express your concern of sober people killing others in vehicle accidents? which are a lot higher than drunk drivers that kill others in vehicle accidents?

i tell you why, because it doesn't help your personal and political agenda against the legalization of cannabis...

and what ever you say this day forward has no credibility because you are blind of the truth and you're in denial mode...

and accidentally killing someone (sober or drunk/impaired), and murdering someone are two different things, that's why they get different charges and therefor get different jail/prison sentences...