Official Politics Debate and Discussion.

[Black Angel]

You're spot on. Kamala had two major factors working against her: being female and being black/POC/ETC. Not only does she have frail men throwing a tantrum about a woman potentially being in charge, but now you have racists who, as soon as they see the color of your skin, ignore everything else you say. Trump could've told these people he'd shoot them in the first on the 3rd day after being elected and they'd still vote for him simply because "I only vote for white people".

The worst part is, white people will never do their part, because racism is deep-rooted into our history. For every white person who isn't racist, there's ten more racist fucks waiting for their chance to speak on the evils of people with different skin colors. It doesn't matter where you live in the US - the poorest, bum fuck hicktown or the luxurious mansions of California. All forms of bigotry is everywhere, there's no way to avoid it. It truly is disheartening the world we live in, especially for the next 4 years where trump's racist ass will make the problem even worse. USA progressive? Not even close, we are a cesspool of stupidity and walking backwards through history because we love to replay the past. Conveniently, trump quoted hitler and said he was a good guy. So who knows, maybe he'll re-enact hitler's crimes. It's apparently what all his brain dead supporters want.

Please don't despair.

I am not going to lie to you, I didn't have high hopes going into this election either, esp. where WW were concerned, but you know what, even a cynical NY'er like myself can be wrong too.

Trust me, momentum is on our side, but right now we just need to cry, rage, puke, scream and do whatever we need to do in order to get our heads back in the game.

Webs will tell you, I had a complete fucking meltdown back in 2016. But him, being a "red tarheel" back then helped me keep my head in the game and that was when I committed myself to learning my history and dropping knowledge when and where I could. And I'll tell you, I have lost friends in the process. I lost a friend I'd known since 2004 because he was becoming radicalized by the Ain't Right movement and he didn't appreciate the fact that I dropped facts in response to his propaganda. But sticking to facts is empowering even if it isn't comfortable.. and that makes it worth it.

So my advice to you would be to do the same. I am sure that when I committed myself to learning and telling the truth in response to b.s. that I might have educated a few people out there too even if it isn't something I initially set out to do. And that is honestly what I do anywhere I am online. If the truth is on your side then you have power and support.

Do not despair, there are more of us than there are of them, and truth be told all of this hate is rooted in fear and insecurity, and in all truth I feel bad for them. But I also know that people are more likely to listen to those they like, and that is exactly why it is your turn to reach out and enlighten these people. We've been trying for 400 years (1/3 of my ancestors where those who greeted the English on the shores of Jamestown, who later on brought over the other 1/3 from Africa) and so the only thing left to try since that didnt work after 4 centuries, is for you guys to try.

It won't be easy for you because White people are afraid of conflict, be it internally (easier to deny uncomfortable truths) or externally with others, but just know that doing so is liberating for you too and so don't worry about who you lose in the process. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. There are more of us than there are of them.. and our side has love, joy and truth.. something that their side will never have. I am sure you watched the conventions and seen them side by side on X. That is how we always are, so don't despair, just commit yourself to truth, ignore the noise and join us as we fight back.. doing so will only add more soldiers to our side.

We have been here before, but we will be ok as long as we don't waste too much time and energy on the noise from our opposition and commit yourself to the truth.. and then share it with your peers.. it will get easier with time and you will change minds and hearts too. We have 2 years to get back in the game and stage the greatest comeback ever. Just imagine how awesome this country would be if we got our shit together? If we keep our eye on the prize, we can get there, but we need as many people as possible to do so. The momentum, truth and history is on our side. If we all do our part, we will pull through.. but you have to keep fighting.

If it helps, we have only been gaining support, this is unprecedented in this country, but remember we inspire other countries to. If we succeed, we can change the world for the better. The rest of the world and survival of the planet are counting on us.

BIPoC are not the only ones disappointed, honestly, we're not surprised, but white people are pissed and hurt as well and that is why things are different this time around. We need as many soldiers possible, so do what you need to in order to get your head back in the game. We have several playbooks (history, (domestic and global) literature, studying narcissism and this past election.. etc., we know exactly what the people want now..) we will learn from this failure and rebound stronger, while the other side has nothing.. if you have the courage to stand up then others will do the same.

Don't worry about who you lose in the process, but remember, the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. They will only win if we give up the fight.. and I think we have way too much to gain to do that.. but we need white people to do their part to make that a reality. We have your back in this fight and so does the rest of the world.

 

[Webster]

 

[Webster]

Webs will tell you, I had a complete fucking meltdown back in 2016. But him, being a "red tarheel" back then helped me keep my head in the game and that was when I committed myself to learning my history and dropping knowledge when and where I could.

Thank you Angel.

 

[Black Angel]

Thank you Angel.

No, thank you. I truly appreciate it and not being hyperbolic in the least when I say this, but it probably saved my life. Mr. Nest kept telling me that there were good people out there, and you proved his words.

So truly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

 

[Black Angel]

And then you see something like this from an outside source that turns our friend's argument slightly sideways....

(and if you look carefully you will see that this has nothing to do with Fox News.)

Why did Black voters shift towards Trump, and how did he woo them?

Trump almost doubles support among Black voters compared with 2020, exit polls say. How and where? We break it down.

www.aljazeera.com

With all due respect Doc.

This is bullshit.

Black people were in lockstep with Harris. She had the same support among Black men that Biden did in 2020.

On average she had 86% of the Black vote.

It was Older, Uneducated, White and Latino Male Gen X'ers who fumbled this one. Even Boomers and WW have redeemed themselves on this. Here is a post I made yesterday at my place.

The numbers don't lie. Tizzy said it best.

This was completely on this demographic, everyone else showed up.. the brightside, is that if you educate yourself on narcissism, you'll know exactly how to deal with them.

White Supremacy = Narcissistic Abuse.

 

[Webster]

Remember when I spoke about "reality vs. perception" Angel a while back?
This was one of those elections where people's perceptions of America overrode the hard truth, the economic realities around them. Economically speaking, even after you account for the Covid years of 2020-2021, the economy under Biden was stronger than under Trump; it just was. Oil/gas production was greater under Biden than under Trump, etc., etc. That was the reality; the data backs that up.

The perception, though, was that, under Trump....
-People had more money in their pocket
-Gas & utilities were cheaper
-Families were able to provide for their children
Etc., etc., etc.

Abraham Maslow once spoke about human society and the "hierarchy of needs" and those principles apply as much in the political realm as anywhere else; if you can't ensure people's basic needs first, they're simply going to tune out everything else imaginable. You can talk about race and social issues all day long but if a person has to worry about whether they can feed and clothe their kids, they're not gonna care about the rest of that.

Reach people on their level and help build them up and you'll find they're more likely to listen, if not support whatever positions you hold.
Talk down to them (as @Reddington did in an earlier post) or talk about things incidental/unrelated to a person's basic needs and they will tune you out every single time.

Its' as old as the honey vs. vinegar argument and Republicans played it to the hilt.

 

[Black Angel]

Remember when I spoke about "reality vs. perception" Angel a while back?
This was one of those elections where people's perceptions of America overrode the hard truth, the economic realities around them. Economically speaking, even after you account for the Covid years of 2020-2021, the economy under Biden was stronger than under Trump; it just was. Oil/gas production was greater under Biden than under Trump, etc., etc. That was the reality; the data backs that up.

The perception, though, was that, under Trump....
-People had more money in their pocket
-Gas & utilities were cheaper
-Families were able to provide for their children
Etc., etc., etc.

Abraham Maslow once spoke about human society and the "hierarchy of needs" and those principles apply as much in the political realm as anywhere else; if you can't ensure people's basic needs first, they're simply going to tune out everything else imaginable. You can talk about race and social issues all day long but if a person has to worry about whether they can feed and clothe their kids, they're not gonna care about the rest of that.

Reach people on their level and help build them up and you'll find they're more likely to listen, if not support whatever positions you hold.
Talk down to them (as @Reddington did in an earlier post) or talk about things incidental/unrelated to a person's basic needs and they will tune you out every single time.

Its' as old as the honey vs. vinegar argument and Republicans played it to the hilt.

Right.

And as you know from your days back at TN, I can fully understand his rage. He is rightfully enraged.. and probably hurt because he really believed that we were better than this. Quite frankly, compared to me back in 2016 he's practically Mother Goose.

But let me ask you this, what role do you think both mental illness and illiteracy played in this? What role do you think media illiteracy and the lack of critical thinking played in this?

The older end of Gen X is older than my own Mom. As it is, she is technically a Xoomer in the same way I am a Xennial. I can tell you now that my Mom was not able to help me with my homework growing up because the math she was doing as a senior was the same stuff I did in 5th grade, and this was before I was tested and found to be reading, writing and doing math at collegiate junior level in the 6th grade. Boomers and Xoomers were purposefully miseducated.. just like white people have been since they encountered Black people on other continents..

And then they were told NOT to think critically or ask questions. They were told that if they just keep their heads down and do as they are told that everything would be ok. This has been going on since before I was born. And with respect to the mentally ill, the GOP exploited and continues to do so to this day. Their electorate is dying off faster than their ideology and this was why they lurked on platforms like 4chan, r/incel, 8chan, Manosphere, etc. to amass their base by appealing to their worst instincts. I'll bet that a lot of their bro base will end up seeing the light sooner then the GOP realizes.

But until then, teach your girls how to defend themselves, teach yours sons how to speak up in defense of their sister or any woman being harassed, teach them that being a real man is about caring for others as much as it is being strong and that it is ok to cry. These are all things that make you human. There are women's groups in India that teach the girls and women how to defend themselves from the rapists from the upper castes as well as those within their own. Teach them how to use a firearm if you got them but also give them a recipe for sausage and tell them that human flesh is said to be similar in texture to pork.. and that they csn use ground pork to make up the difference.. not that they'll be eating it anyway.. this is for both plausible deniability and so they don't end up starring in porn after its been reattached.

Teaching the boys how to stand up for what's right and defend those who are vulnerable and teaching the girls how to defend themselves, instead of relying on someone else will only empower them and once these "bros" realize this, then perhaps they won't be so emboldened now, running around now saying disgusting shit like "your body, my choice." If PJ2025 is implemented then the women and children of this country will be easy pickings for the wealthy just as the girls Trump trafficked for Epstein, Putin and the other wealthy men were.

These guys do not care about consent, they will resort to rape just like all the other malignant narcissists have. So this is why the sausage recipe will come in very handy. Also, the men should step up too be it fathers, husbands, uncles or brothers. There will be a lot of period tracking now so it is important for men to track their cycles too in lieu of having the girls and women in their life using them and tracking them. If they have to track, have them use a paper calendar or something with no connection to the internet.

They are banking on people further excluding these kids just so they can point and say that they were right about us all along. They are intentionally gaslighting us just so that they can laugh and justify tormenting us when we react. So as you learn more about narcissism and you will learn how to counter and protect yourself and others.

The bottomline is that by talking to them, you will know exactly what you are dealing with and we need an ecosystem as robust as theirs is. These boys are lonely and frustrated that no one seems to care about them and that is why they have flocked to the GOP and Trump. They are abused as home and by the GOP and this is where compassion is key. That will be the way to get through to them but it'll have to be up to their peers to do so.. and who knows maybe they can get the help they need before the GOP gets rid of that too.

Harris' campaign was historic and because of this election we know exactly what to do to make it better. We need to counter their narcissism with empathy and their lies with the truth and we need to do so in a way that is competitive and compatible with the infrastructure that they currently have set up.

This is why I say it is important to talk to your peers because in doing so, you will know exactly what you are dealing with.. what playbook to use and how to move accordingly.

 

[Webster]

And as you know from your days back at TN, I can fully understand his rage. He is rightfully enraged.. and probably hurt because he really believed that we were better than this. Quite frankly, compared to me back in 2016 he's practically Mother Goose.

But let me ask you this, what role do you think both mental illness and illiteracy played in this? What role do you think media illiteracy and the lack of critical thinking played in this?

On the first question, I want to say a lot but from what everything I saw in the run=up to the election, not as much as expected. One thing Trump supporters got very damn good at was hiding their support for Donald Trump. Yes, there were Trump signs out but a lot fewer than what I saw either in 2016 or 2020 (and Western NC is a relative GOP stronghold) and when asked why, they straight-up told people they were tired of being browbeaten by others over their support for Trump (again, remember, perception vs. reality) and so most all of them simply hid their Trump signs and waited until election time and took out their frustrations at the ballot box.

That said, as someone who's suffered from mental illness the past few years (including a failed suicide attempt in Oct. 2021) I've had people ask me why I supported Kamala Harris and I told them it was a combo of her policies and my loathing/dislike for Trump (for which I got thrown the TDS label often for). But do I think Trump supporters are mentally ill or illiterate? For most of them, no to either one; most were entirely cogent and sound of mind in their support for him.

On the second question, when it comes to the media I always go by Ronald Reagan's famous quote "Dovery, no provery." (Russian for "Trust, but verify.") Don't trust anything you see/hear/read in the mainstream press until you can either (a) prove it with another source or (b) disprove it w/another source. Don't just take on faith that what the media says is legit and that applies across the board - Left, Right, doesn't matter. We can't simply take what the media says and shrugs as if to say "Okay, I believe you."

Read, learn, listen, study - never let your mind grow idle or lazy. Keep it busy as much as possible, even if you're recycling past things; a lot of the issue w/media illiteracy and the lack of CT (critical thinking) skills is that we've (and this is across society, Angel) allowed ourselves to outsource those skills to media hacks who lie, cheat and misinfo at every opportunity.

Just look at all the polls going in that were nigh-identical to each other, over and over again. Herding, they called it; I think it was more of the pollsters/media not wanting to go against the crowd and acting accordingly, an even more dangerous thing than what you asked above.

 

[Webster]

There was also a lot of single-issue voting as well this year, @Black Angel; case in point....


(The Guardian) Donald Trump made inroads in two Michigan cities that are home to some of the largest Arab American and Muslim communities in the United States, after those voters grew disenchanted with Joe Biden over his support for Israel’s invasion of Gaza.

In addition to winning Michigan overall, the Detroit Free Press reports that Trump was the pick of most voters in Dearborn, and performed well in Hamtramck – both cities where many people of Middle Eastern descent live.

In previous elections, Democrats had performed well in those communities, but Biden’s decision to supply Israel with weapons it has used in Gaza and, more recently, Lebanon, sparked a sustained backlash that extended to his vice-president, Kamala Harris. Trump has said little about how he would handle Israel’s conflicts as president, but was supportive of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government during his first term, and also implemented a ban on travelers from several majority Muslim countries.

Here’s more about the backlash Harris faced in Michigan, from the Free Press: In Dearborn, where 55% of the residents are of Middle Eastern descent, Trump won with 42.48% of the vote over Vice President Kamala Harris, who received 36.26%, according to results, with 100% of precincts counted, provided to the Free Press from City Clerk George Darany. Jill Stein received 18.37% of the vote. Voter turnout in Dearborn was smaller compared to 2020.

Trump also won in Dearborn Heights, where 39% of the residents are of Middle Eastern descent, defeating Harris 44% to 38.3%, with Stein at 15.1%.

In the November 2020 election, Biden received 68.8% in Dearborn while Trump received 29.9%. Muslim voters interviewed Tuesday at polling sites said they were disappointed with the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s attacks and also preferred Trump’s views on economics.

… In Hamtramck, Trump also had a substantial increase in support, but Harris won the working-class city that has the highest percentage of immigrants among cities in Michigan. In November 2020, Biden won Hamtramck, winning with 85.4% of the vote over Trump, who only got 13.4%. With 100% of the vote counted, Harris got 46.2% in Tuesday’s election in Hamtramck, a significant decrease from Biden’s 85% four years ago, while Trump got 42.7% and Jill Stein was at 8.96%, according to results provided to the Free Press by City Clerk Rana Faraj.
-Read more: https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...orn-and-makes-gains-in-hamtramck/76085841007/

 

[Black Angel]

There was also a lot of single-issue voting as well this year, @Black Angel; case in point....


(The Guardian) Donald Trump made inroads in two Michigan cities that are home to some of the largest Arab American and Muslim communities in the United States, after those voters grew disenchanted with Joe Biden over his support for Israel’s invasion of Gaza.

In addition to winning Michigan overall, the Detroit Free Press reports that Trump was the pick of most voters in Dearborn, and performed well in Hamtramck – both cities where many people of Middle Eastern descent live.

In previous elections, Democrats had performed well in those communities, but Biden’s decision to supply Israel with weapons it has used in Gaza and, more recently, Lebanon, sparked a sustained backlash that extended to his vice-president, Kamala Harris. Trump has said little about how he would handle Israel’s conflicts as president, but was supportive of Benjamin Netanyahu’s government during his first term, and also implemented a ban on travelers from several majority Muslim countries.

Here’s more about the backlash Harris faced in Michigan, from the Free Press: In Dearborn, where 55% of the residents are of Middle Eastern descent, Trump won with 42.48% of the vote over Vice President Kamala Harris, who received 36.26%, according to results, with 100% of precincts counted, provided to the Free Press from City Clerk George Darany. Jill Stein received 18.37% of the vote. Voter turnout in Dearborn was smaller compared to 2020.

Trump also won in Dearborn Heights, where 39% of the residents are of Middle Eastern descent, defeating Harris 44% to 38.3%, with Stein at 15.1%.

In the November 2020 election, Biden received 68.8% in Dearborn while Trump received 29.9%. Muslim voters interviewed Tuesday at polling sites said they were disappointed with the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s attacks and also preferred Trump’s views on economics.

… In Hamtramck, Trump also had a substantial increase in support, but Harris won the working-class city that has the highest percentage of immigrants among cities in Michigan. In November 2020, Biden won Hamtramck, winning with 85.4% of the vote over Trump, who only got 13.4%. With 100% of the vote counted, Harris got 46.2% in Tuesday’s election in Hamtramck, a significant decrease from Biden’s 85% four years ago, while Trump got 42.7% and Jill Stein was at 8.96%, according to results provided to the Free Press by City Clerk Rana Faraj.
-Read more: https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...orn-and-makes-gains-in-hamtramck/76085841007/

Yeah that is fucked.

They lacked media literacy and the ability to understand politics. It isn't a zero-sum game and now they have effectively signed the death warrant of those they claimed they were concerned about.

The truth is, they never care in the first place. And honestly, as a marginalized group themselves, they might've signed their own as well. The fact of the matter is that they would have stood to benefit had they become educated on our country's political system because had they have done so like the rest of us, they would have had a fighting chance.

But we all know the poem "First They Came" by heart now.

It is just a fucking shame and now they will likely be the first ones followed by the Latinos who voted for him.

It's like chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.

But of course our coalition will do everything possible to help here.. but I am terrified for the Palestinians, Taiwanese and the marginalized abroad. Hopefully Dark Brandon has a plan for them as well since Netanyoohoo has since shown his hand in Gaza.

 

[Webster]

Yeah that is fucked.

For lack of a better phrase, yeah.
That said, for a lot of them (and I know this; when I attended UNC Charlotte back in the mid/late 90's my junior year was spent living in the International Dorm w/a lot of Arab/Muslim/Palestinian students and they felt the same way towards Israel as they brethren feel about Israel today) it was either "vote for the evil you know (Trump)" or "vote for the facilitator of Israel's war (Harris)" and they chose what they knew.

 

[Black Angel]

We could also chalk this up to a lack of critical thinking as well. Hopefully we'll be able to get through to them once they realized what they've done.

 

[Black Angel]

 

[Black Angel]

So apparently there are tabulation issues nation wide due to thr machines not uploading ballots? Has anyone heard this?

I read that if this was the case that it would explain the vote deficit by millions.

I wish we had a law that allowed for an election do over given the circumstances at play here. We've had bomb threats coming from overseas, this would mean that the election was held under duress.

 

[PGen98]

So apparently there are tabulation issues nation wide due to thr machines not uploading ballots? Has anyone heard this?

I read that if this was the case that it would explain the vote deficit by millions.

I wish we had a law that allowed for an election do over given the circumstances at play here. We've had bomb threats coming from overseas, this would mean that the election was held under duress.

 

[Black Angel]

I was just thinking that if you can't sign a contract with a gun to your head then you shouldn't conduct an election either for the same reason.

It was widely reported that there were going to be election day fuckery.. and this is unprecedented.

I'm not trying to put out false hope but I have been hearing about this since yesterday..

 

[Black Angel]

 

[PGen98]

The fact it needs to be said is more pathetic than anything, but...it's true.

 

[Webster]

that it would explain the vote deficit by millions.

Lot of people are wondering how Kamala could reach Hillary's total from 2016 but Joe Biden gets 81+ million votes in 2020?
Heck, both myself and @DrLeftover have been mulling over that one for about a day or two now....

 

[Webster]

It was widely reported that there were going to be election day fuckery..

Was there election day fuckery? Yeah, there were a few that I know of from following the election (here's the third of three Election 2024 threads I did over on the C2 - note: I started the first Election 2024 thread about two weeks ago)...mainly people wearing Trump gear not being allowed to enter the actual polling areas, there were two unsubstantiated bomb threats phones in from Russia at Ga. election officials, etc., but not as many as I thought there'd be ).....